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Terraforming Mars» Forums » General

Subject: Hoverlord and Colonies tiles rss

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Travis Allen
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Our group routinely plays with all the expansion content available, except the preludes (we like longer games). They're always 4 to 5 player games as well. All cards are always drafted. Typically we end in about 8 to 9 turns with this setup.

After adding the Venus content, we felt that hoverlord may be too narrow of a milestone, especially since it is often free of competition to the one person at the table producing floaters. This allowed the floater player to essentially have a "free" milestone that nobody else does. This wouldn't be as big a deal of it couldn't be achieved so quickly relative to most other milestones. I managed to fulfill hoverlord on my fourth action of the game yesterday. This means that all the other players are basically guaranteed to be fighting for 2 milestone slots rather than 3.

The introduction of Colonies has only exacerbated the issue. With the floater tile, you can add 3 to a card immediately. Pair this with a card that comes into play with floaters, and you can see how hitting 7 on turn one is possible.

Our first attempt at a solution was removing the two corps that start the game by searching for venus cards, but since we always draft everything, it doesn't do much to stymie a determined floater player. A single floater card with the colony tile is going to hit 7 quickly.

I'm thinking the solution is to change the threshold for hoverlord to 8,9,or more. That way it's much harder to rush to, thus allowing for a more consistent milestone race.

Has anyone else had similar experiences, and what did you find worked or didn't work?
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Paul Couch
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This hasn't really been an issue for us, as although I agree that hover lord is an option for floater Corps, it usually comes with a significant developmental delay. Most starting floater cards are economic or Terraformer development, and having to accumulate rather than spent is, IMHO, significant.
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Charles Washington
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This has been discussed elsewhere on the forums, but I don't feel like looking it up.

I found that not using them in every game works the best. We use finger trick to determine the board, and then use it again to determine whether to include Venus stuff.

1. include both
2. milestone only
3. award only
4. neither included

It works, keeps the games from becoming rote until the other variable milestones and awards arrive in a future expansion.
 
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Rikard Johansson
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For a long while after VN we didn't play with the Hoverlord and Venuphile at all. Then we playerd an extensive period where we randomized their inclusion (and if they were included they replaced one of the ordinary ones). this worked realtively well i think.

After prelude we stopped doing this though and went back to including them every time. We no longer felt they were claimed/funded as much as they used to. It was probably a novely of the VN-expansion, plus a higher frequency of venus corps.

Haven't made up my mind about them after colonies. Hoverlord does seem to be claimed a lot.
 
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Michael Denman
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Hoogard wrote:
Then we playerd an extensive period where we randomized their inclusion (and if they were included they replaced one of the ordinary ones).


I don't know if I feel this is a problem either, but I like your solution. Roll d6. The Venus Milestone replaces that other Milestone on the board with a 6 meaning it's not included. Do the same with the Award.
 
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Rikard Johansson
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Trump wrote:
Hoogard wrote:
Then we playerd an extensive period where we randomized their inclusion (and if they were included they replaced one of the ordinary ones).


I don't know if I feel this is a problem either, but I like your solution. Roll d6. The Venus Milestone replaces that other Milestone on the board with a 6 meaning it's not included. Do the same with the Award.


That's roughly how we did it, but first we added a 50% die-roll to test of whether it should have a chance to be included at all.

Our reasoning was this. We play each map more or less the same amount. Therefore, any given milestone or award has a rougly 1/3 chance of appearing.

Therefore, it might be reasonable to adjust hoverlord and venuphile to those number as well.

So we did the following:
For Hoverlord and Venuphile respectively (i.e independant of each other):
1) Roll a D6. On 4+ the tile is (probably) included.
2) Roll an additional D6. Replace the indicated M/A with Hoverlord/venuphile. If 6, don't include.

 
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Simon
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Travis,

Please open: https://ssimeonoff.github.io/stats

Then click under Filters all expansion buttons (so you will observe data from games having all expansions).

You will see that:
Hoverlord is being taken in 44% of the games.

Prelude completely messed up some of the milestones. Examples:

Diversifier (8 different tags)
With the extra money and tags from the Preludes, easy to ace in Gen 1.
Energizer (6 energy production)
+4/5 from preludes and ...done in Gen 1.
Rim Settler ( 3 Jovian tags).
Just luck needed.
Generalist (+1 production to all).
Just luck needed and done in Gen 1 - SOCIETY SUPPORT prelude is lovely.
Specialist (+10 production).
ALLIED BANKS + BUSINESS EMPIRE and in Gen1 in my first move I took it just to be sassy.

Anyway, you can see the numbers.
DIVERSIFIER and SPECIALIST are now almost the constant ones.

Hoverlord was not that popular before Colonies and I don't think the last expansion changes that fact that much, even if you get lucky and got Titan in play.

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Peter Bakija
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travistee wrote:
After adding the Venus content, we felt that hoverlord may be too narrow of a milestone, especially since it is often free of competition to the one person at the table producing floaters. This allowed the floater player to essentially have a "free" milestone that nobody else does.


Hoverlord isn't always something that folks can get, and sometimes people are competing for it. There are plenty of milestones that are kind of narrow and quickly grabbed by one corporation or another (gardener, mayor, etc.). If using Preludes and Colonies and the expansion maps, there are numerous situations where someone can grab a milestone on the first turn.

In short, it is probably best not to worry about it too much. Hoverlord is fine. Sometimes it is easy for one player to get, sometimes it is virtually impossible for anyone to get. Sometimes there is a race between two players to get there first.
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