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Subject: January '19 US Math Shipping Trade Discussion Thread rss

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William Leslie
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This is a US shipping math trade. To participate you must be able to receive at a US address. If you are shipping from outside the US, you must explicitly disclose this.

Please note that there are several recent additions/changes to the rules. They are typically in bold with a ***NEW*** indication.

DATES
Deadline to submit offers: Sunday, January 13th, 12:30 AM Pacific
Deadline to submit wants: Sunday, January 20th, 12:30 AM Pacific
**Please note the AM deadlines.**


Shipping: Should you not specify any shipping conditions, you bear the full shipping cost to any US address. You may not list any shipping conditions that pertain to the contiguous 48 states. Items that you'll be sending via USPS flat rate or 1st class ship for the same amount to all 50 states. The less you restrict your shipping, the more potential you have that it will trade. That is all that will be said about the matter. cool

Trade Geeklist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/251102/january-19-us-math...
Wishlist: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/251103/january-19-us-math...

MATH TRADE RULES AND GUIDELINES:

OLWLG REQUIRED
1. Use of the On-Line Want List Generator (OLWLG) is required for this math trade. (http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/) Please get comfortable with it before the end of the trade. If you have questions, I suggest you post them in the discussion thread (link above). I or other users are happy to help you. There are several useful links to help you learn how to use the OLWLG at the bottom of this post.

ITEMS ALLOWED
2. Board and card games, BGG-related items, RPG items, video games, cash equivalent items (gift certificates, PayPal, etc.), and Geek Gold are allowed in this math trade. Cash equivalent items will need to be entered in the marketplace so BGG can collect their 3% commission for sales. Click here for more information on these Guidelines.

ARBITRAGE
3. Absolutely no GC/GG arbitrage, meaning you may not trade any gift card or GG lot for one of greater value. I will allow you to trade GC's for equal or lesser valued actual, physical GC's. Remember, if you intend to trade for cash equivalents, you must pay BGG a 3% commission. (See Guidelines link in rule #2, above)

You may not both simultaneously buy GG for cash equivalents and sell GG for cash equivalents in the same trade. Meaning if you intend to offer GG and request CE's for those listings, you may not also offer CE's and request GG, or vice versa. You may either be a buyer or seller, but not both during the same trade. This does not apply to any transaction where an actual game is being traded, strictly GG for CE and CE for GG transactions.

***NEW*** If, when the trade is run, there is a case of arbitrage, that user (including all of their items and wants) will be removed from the trade and the trade will be re-run. At the discretion of the moderator, that user may be banned from participating in future math trades.

***NEW*** Be cautious when using the OLWLG auto-check feature. It is not aware of the rules against arbitrage and will check boxes that may result in arbitrage. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to review the checks that the auto-check feature generates.

ITEM DESCRIPTION
4. You must describe, as accurately as possible, the condition of the components and box, the language, and edition of your item and any sweeteners. You must (with the exception of items that are new in factory shrink wrap, ie NIS) inventory the game's components and list anything missing and/or damaged. If you do not, the game is expected to be complete, in like-new condition and be the most recent English edition.

***NEW*** If you list the condition of the item as anything less than excellent, you should be describing the issue(s) making you rate it less than excellent.

***NEW*** Language such as "components not inventoried", "no guarantee", "recipient's responsibility to contact the publisher in the event of missing pieces", etc. is NOT ALLOWED. Listings with such disclaimers will be removed from the trade. At the moderator's discretion, the user may be removed from the trade.

5. Add sweeteners by typing the name of the game into the "board game" box of the drop-down menu so they properly display in the OLWLG.

6. Do not use an item type listing for an item unless you are offering that item, this also applies to listings using hyperlinks in the description. For example, do not list the item as the game if you're only offering certain components for that game. When in doubt, use "outside the scope of BGG" as the main listing.

7. Items may be edited after listing. ***NEW*** This editing MAY include downgrading the initial listing. Should changes to a listing be made, the OLWLG will alert all users who have already selected the item as a want. It is THEIR responsibility to review and accept the changes (or remove the item from their wantlist).

8. If you wish to remove an item for consideration, DELETE the item. The OLWLG handles this just fine (See #9, below).

9. Subscribe to any and all items you are interested in, rather than writing down the number. If you write down the number and an item gets removed, the number will change.

PARTICIPANT OBLIGATIONS
10. Please subscribe to all of your listings and publicly acknowledge all questions. The OLWLG will let you know if any of your items have unanswered comments.

11. It is customary to enter all trades into the BGG trading system. This is most easily done if the items you are trading are listed in your collection and are marked as "For Trade". Please endeavor to do so and to leave feedback once the trade is completed. Under most circumstances, positive feedback should be given for the empty half of the math trade.

12. PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ENTERING INTO THIS MATH TRADE IS A COMMITMENT TO TRADE THE ITEMS THAT YOU ARE INDICATING YOU ARE WILLING TO TRADE FOR YOUR WANTED ITEMS. IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DOUBLE CHECK DUPLICATE PROTECTION AND CHECK BOXES. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO TRADE ONE OF YOUR ITEMS FOR ANOTHER ITEM, DO NOT INCLUDE IT IN YOUR WANTLIST. THE RESULTS, ONCE POSTED, ARE BINDING.

MODERATOR RESPONSIBILITY
13. Only errors by the moderator will invalidate the results. In the case that there is a problem after the final results are posted, at most it will only invalidate the affected trade chain(s) and not the entire results set. In addition, if the problem can be resolved by the most directly affected party or parties, then that is perfectly acceptable.

14. Decisions to anything that comes up regarding this math trade are decided by me. If you do not agree with me making such decisions, then don't participate in the math trade.


A general note:

While > 99% of the time trades go through smoothly, you are dealing with humans. Humans let other humans down and sometimes take advantage of them. Humans also sometimes make mistakes. If you are not ready to accept this fact, I suggest you refrain from entering this trade.

Please remember, every green check mark in the OLWLG means you are agreeing to make that trade. Once you submit your wants and the window to resubmit closes, you've agreed to those trades, and are expected to honor them, even in the event of a mistake.

I am running this trade because math trades are fun, exciting, and just plain awesome. Most of my collection has come from math trades. I am donating my time both for selfish reasons (to make trades) and out of gratitude to those that moderated the dozens of trades that I have enjoyed participating in. I am under no obligation to make everyone happy, nor will I try. Should you not like me or the way I run this trade, please refrain from entering.

HELPFUL LINKS
While there is a lot of useful information in these links, so of the information may be a bit outdated. The above rules of this trade take precedence over information in these links.
Math_Trades - If you're new to math trades, follow this link to learn the ropes.
Math Trades for Dummies - Another good intro.
Math Trade Walkthrough/FAQ for newbies - Another good resource with lots of answers to lots of frequently asked questions.
OLWLG - Read here for help using the On-Line Want List Generator to submit your want list.
Math Trade Video Tutorials - Tutorial videos
Rahdo Runs Through Math Trades video - covers all aspects of math trades

Please post here in the discussion thread if you have any questions. Math trades might look a bit complicated at first, but they're really easy once you get the hang of them.

Good luck and happy trading!
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Jason Coleman
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At the gateway it’s gateway page it’s only showing the no-shipping math trades. No display of shipping math trades.
 
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Chris Thompson
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Jason1976 wrote:
At the gateway it’s gateway page it’s only showing the no-shipping math trades. No display of shipping math trades.
There's always a delay until the first sync and manual correction. Just be patient.
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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Jason1976 wrote:
At the gateway it’s gateway page it’s only showing the no-shipping math trades. No display of shipping math trades.
This is because Jeff hasn't approved the math trade yet (a manual process on his end) William I'm sure has made the request, so it's a matter of waiting. William cannot sync or do anything until it shows.

If Jeff had approved it would show on the OLWLG regardless of ship/no-ship.

Once he does, it will most likely show as "NO SHIP" until William goes in and sets a few settings.

Nothing to do with William's synching the list or anything.

EDIT: That said, it's there now: https://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/viewlist.cgi?listid=25110...

William will need to update to "SHIPPING", but otherwise it's working as expected.
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Werewolf Kai Jason
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I'm noticing the OLWLG isn't pulling the gift cards out of the wishlisted view again, same as last month's list. I didn't see a response to my comment last month so I'll ask again: was there a change to the OLWLG tool or is there a setting that needs to be checked/unchecked so that gift cards will be collected under the gift card option of the OLWLG? I'm not finding a personal setting that has changed. The change also means I'm seeing EVERY alt named Outside-the-scope instead of just ones that contain wishlist items. Maybe it's something changed in the wishlist/magnifying glass feature.

Or am I the only one noticing and getting frustrated with the change, heh?

As a reference, October's list didn't have this issue, and I wasn't part of the November, but December and January have had this happen now.

Despite my frustration, I do appreciate you running these trades.

Thanks!
 
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Eden Hansen
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Added a game to the math trade and added a game to my want list. My game is not on the list yet in OLWLG yet..I assume I have to wait for it to be synced?
 
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Tim Connolly
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Do you have 'Outside the Scope' listed as 'Want in Trade'? If so I imagine they'll show up there. I don't have an issues with GC's showing up in my wishlist views.
 
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Matthew De Lorge
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Eden73 wrote:
Added a game to the math trade and added a game to my want list. My game is not on the list yet in OLWLG yet..I assume I have to wait for it to be synced?
Yes, just assume next day after you list something for it to show up. Last I saw there were almost 1,000 games listed, but not showing in the OLWG list yet.
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William Leslie
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Kaiwolf wrote:
I'm noticing the OLWLG isn't pulling the gift cards out of the wishlisted view again, same as last month's list. I didn't see a response to my comment last month so I'll ask again: was there a change to the OLWLG tool or is there a setting that needs to be checked/unchecked so that gift cards will be collected under the gift card option of the OLWLG? I'm not finding a personal setting that has changed. The change also means I'm seeing EVERY alt named Outside-the-scope instead of just ones that contain wishlist items. Maybe it's something changed in the wishlist/magnifying glass feature.

Or am I the only one noticing and getting frustrated with the change, heh?

As a reference, October's list didn't have this issue, and I wasn't part of the November, but December and January have had this happen now.

Despite my frustration, I do appreciate you running these trades.

Thanks!
Please elaborate. Which icon/button are you pressing and what are you seeing or not seeing that you want to?

When I click the gift card icon, it shows me all the gift card offerings (and no other outside the scope items)...
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Werewolf Kai Jason
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waleslie wrote:
Kaiwolf wrote:
I'm noticing the OLWLG isn't pulling the gift cards out of the wishlisted view again, same as last month's list. I didn't see a response to my comment last month so I'll ask again: was there a change to the OLWLG tool or is there a setting that needs to be checked/unchecked so that gift cards will be collected under the gift card option of the OLWLG? I'm not finding a personal setting that has changed. The change also means I'm seeing EVERY alt named Outside-the-scope instead of just ones that contain wishlist items. Maybe it's something changed in the wishlist/magnifying glass feature.

Or am I the only one noticing and getting frustrated with the change, heh?

As a reference, October's list didn't have this issue, and I wasn't part of the November, but December and January have had this happen now.

Despite my frustration, I do appreciate you running these trades.

Thanks!
Please elaborate. Which icon/button are you pressing and what are you seeing or not seeing that you want to?

When I click the gift card icon, it shows me all the gift card offerings (and no other outside the scope items)...
((Removing "Outside the Scope" from my "want in trade" list kind of fixes this, but I'll still clarify in case others have a similar issue.))

I was referencing the magnifying glass icon, which has been setup to check my wishlist/trade list. Been that way for years.

Up until the October trade, I never saw gift cards/GG on this icon's list. I've always had "Outside the Scope" in my 'want in trade/for trade' personal lists in order to catch Alt Name items on math trades.

Maybe it WAS me trying to wrangle OLWLG to do something and I borked it somehow, because removing it from all of my personal lists fixes my issue with the GG and Gift Card entries showing up, but now I don't see any Alt Name items unless they include a wishlisted item.

It's also now much harder to test iterations of "Outside the Scope" on wishlist vs trade list vs both since I can't update OLWLG but once a day. Maybe it works if it's only on wishlist, instead of trade. I don't know if there are settings behind the scenes in OLWLG or the lists themselves to make sure to tag GG/gift cards properly. I just know I had a heck of a time trying to use OLWLG since October with my settings.

Apologies if it sounds like a rant
 
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Asher Atlas
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Hey fellas.
New to math trades here...
Is there a way for me to say that I'm willing to trade a combination of games for a selection?
If for example someone is trading a rather expensive games, and all I have for trade are less expensive ones.
How is that done if I'm still interested in that game but can't "afford" it with just 1 of my items?
 
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Diane Close
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bushaaya wrote:
Hey fellas.
New to math trades here...
Is there a way for me to say that I'm willing to trade a combination of games for a selection?
If for example someone is trading a rather expensive games, and all I have for trade are less expensive ones.
How is that done if I'm still interested in that game but can't "afford" it with just 1 of my items?
In a math trade there is only one way to do it: list the games together as one entry. You'd do that by picking one game as the representative game, then adding the others to the descriptive part as sweeteners. Like this geeklist entry.

In other words, you need to make a choice: either list each one as a separate geeklist entry, so that you can choose different games to match them to, OR list them together so that you can offer that up as a choice for desired more expensive game. You can't do both.

 
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bushaaya wrote:
Hey fellas.
New to math trades here...
Is there a way for me to say that I'm willing to trade a combination of games for a selection?
If for example someone is trading a rather expensive games, and all I have for trade are less expensive ones.
How is that done if I'm still interested in that game but can't "afford" it with just 1 of my items?
No. One listing item trades for one listing item only.

A listing item would need to be setup up as a group of games for that to work. But then that whole group would trade (again it’s still a single item in the geeklist).
 
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Justin Rizzo
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bushaaya wrote:
Hey fellas.
New to math trades here...
Is there a way for me to say that I'm willing to trade a combination of games for a selection?
If for example someone is trading a rather expensive games, and all I have for trade are less expensive ones.
How is that done if I'm still interested in that game but can't "afford" it with just 1 of my items?
When you list a game you can add other items as "sweeteners", including adding other games. You just add them into the description. The best way to add additional games is to use the drop down menu and select board game.
 
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Diane Close
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I'll also add: If you choose to combine your games together as one entry, then you're stuck picking only "expensive" games to match them to (unless you don't care about their value).

If you list them separately, you are still welcome to match each single game to your desired expensive game, but you're hoping for luck of the draw to slot you into a chain that results in you getting the expensive one in exchange for your single low-value item. That's certainly not impossible, but it is less likely to happen.

It's also equally possible that no one will want any (or all) of your grouped-together games, so you'll end up with nothing even if you do offer the best value as a "package".

You're taking a chance either way, listing as singles or as a group, and only you can say which choice you'd rather let your "money" ride on.
 
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Asher Atlas
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Yeah that was my thinking too... Too bad that the system doesn't allow selection of combined games.

In any case thanks for all the clarifications!
 
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Asher Atlas
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Another newbie (and possibly silly) question...
I can't offer sci-fi books to be traded, right?
only games, RPGs and gift cards?
 
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Matthew S.
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Nope, you can offer other stuff unless the trade rules specify "games only". I have a boxed set of comics listed in this trade, and someone else has listed a utility knife.
 
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Lewis Goldberg
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Prismattic wrote:
Nope, you can offer other stuff unless the trade rules specify "games only".
Quote:
ITEMS ALLOWED
2. Board and card games, BGG-related items, RPG items, video games, cash equivalent items (gift certificates, PayPal, etc.), and Geek Gold are allowed in this math trade. Cash equivalent items will need to be entered in the marketplace so BGG can collect their 3% commission for sales. Click here for more information on these Guidelines.


Prismattic wrote:
I have a boxed set of comics listed in this trade, and someone else has listed a utility knife.
Probably not allowed, based on the MT rules.
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Matthew S.
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That probably needs to be bolded or otherwise highlighted; there are rather a lot of items not meeting a narrow interpretation of that. (And this has also been true of previous monthly math trades.)

ETA: "BGG-related items" is unclear; maybe things that aren't games but share an IP with games fall under that?
 
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William Leslie
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I will be drawing the line on the knife. I suspect BGG wouldn't want items that could be weapons being traded.
 
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OLWLG page is freezing and not loading fully. Tried different browsers and devices - same result. Anyone else experiencing this?
 
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Justin Rizzo
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waleslie wrote:
I will be drawing the line on the knife. I suspect BGG wouldn't want items that could be weapons being traded.
What about a really fancy butter knife?
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Matthew S.
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On the one hand, people don't want to be hunting for the actual games in a board games math trade. On the other hand, some amount of other items probably helps lubricate the trades. I suggest the following rule for future math trades to balance this tradeoff:

"At least 75% of the items listed by any given user must be board games, RPGS, tabletop gaming accessories, or cash-equivalent items."

Then you can still have some latitude (particularly for fiction that might be used as source material but isn't strictly gaming items) without it overwhelming the list.

"No weapons or hazardous materials" could also be spelled out explicitly.
 
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Eden Hansen
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Is there going to be a test run? I am curious...
 
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