Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
6 Posts

Revolution of 1828» Forums » General

Subject: Why did it have to be Jackson? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Geoff Cost
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Uff, why oh why did this game have to feature the 2nd most terrible President ever? This makes me sad, as I will likely never play this as I will unlikely be able to look past this. I know I know, settler games are as bad but at least these games are generic instead of specific individuals.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt Miller
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
geocost wrote:
Uff, why oh why did this game have to feature the 2nd most terrible President ever? This makes me sad, as I will likely never play this as I will unlikely be able to look past this. I know I know, settler games are as bad but at least these games are generic instead of specific individuals.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears


While Jackson's role regarding the Trail of Tears is abhorrent, to say he's the second most terrible President ever is negating the atrocities committed by other Presidents [Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Harding]. John Quincy Adams isn't a saint either with his Alien and Sedition Act. Cherry picking a presidential race with candidates that don't have blood on their hands would be harder. Is 1960: The Making of a President unplayable due to Nixon's criminal activity and Kennedy's Bay of Pigs fiasco?

Also, this is a Feld game and when has the theme ever truly mattered when it has come to his designs? Maybe the inclusion of Jackson will remind people of how poorly the United States has treated its original citizens, which seems to be a glossed over aspect of board gaming themes.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Stansel
United States
Lexington
South Carolina
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Do I even dare ask who you think the most terrible President is?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TwoofftheTop wrote:
John Quincy Adams isn't a saint either with his Alien and Sedition Act.

Wrong Adams. The Alien and Sedition Acts are associated with his father.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
W M
United States
Buffalo
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jackson was the 2nd best next to Jefferson. It all depends on your view of the world and whether you support statism or not.

Jackson founded the Democrat Party out of the Democratic-Republican Party whose origins are traced back to Jefferson, the anti-Federalists.

Jefferson himself is the intellectual ancestor Jackson with Jefferson's version of the Democratic-Republican Party formed with Madison in 1792. Jackson's Democratic Party emerged out of the era of Good Feelings after the Corrupt Bargain of 1824 between Adams and Clay to make Adams president in order to protect the American System of government subsidies to business and the national bank both of which Jackson opposed.

Prior to the formation of the fourth party system in 1896 and Woodrow Wilson's Progressivism/War Socialism right up through Grover Cleveland the Democrat's represented laissez- faire, individualism, and opposition to the use of the state for an oligarchic elite as represented by Adam's National Republicans and Clay's Whigs.

Hamilton's Federalist Party was the intellectual ancestor to Adams and Clay. The Federalist party collapsed in 1816 owing to their support for the British in 1812 and the resounding American victory against the British by which Jackson played no small part at New Orleans despite the Treaty of Ghent already being signed. Hamilton, Adams and Clay all represented the interests of the economic elite. Hamilton, Adams, and Clay favored an industrialized nation of wage laborers. More importantly Hamilton, (both) Adams, and Clay favored the national bank (owned by private moneyed interests), government subsidies to business, the tariff, and infrastructure. Their view was in contrast to Jefferson's (and later Jackson's), vision of a physiocracy of non-slave holding yeoman farmers in order to preserve republicanism (meaning the people's ability to elect their own representatives which a nexus of government, private bankers, and industry threatened). Hamilton, Adams, and Clay did not favor the idea of Federalism which represented a power sharing agreement between the states and the central government with limited powers to the central government enumerated the Constitution and all other powers possessed by individuals and the state as enumerated in the 9th and 10th Amendments respectively.

1828 was a bitter election owing to 1824 and the slander by both sides. Jackson vowed to break the 2nd bank which he would do. While the Jacksonians did not produce a body of literature like the Jeffersonians did, they opposed internal improvements at the Federal expense, they opposed the national bank and government granted monopolies (which the bank was), and sympathy for the small yeoman farmer. The principles of the Jacksonians were an dogged support for laissez faire and opposition to monopoly and privilege for the elites. They attempted preserve individualism while minimizing aristocracy, rank and class through the use of the state to aggrandize special interests.

If you want to attack Jackson for the trail of tears, the ongoing Georgia-Cherokee dispute, the decision of the Creek Indians to side the with British in 1812 led Jackson to put a final end to the matter. With the exception of the Cherokee all removal of the five civilized tribe were carried out under treaty. Indeed the Cherokee represented by a negotiator named John Ridge also signed a treaty. The Cherokee tribal leaders disputed his representation after the treaty was signed.

If you want to criticize Jackson for the Panic of 1836 owing to the closure of the 2nd bank, there were other factors involved. There was plenty of money available. The problem was that it was mostly in the west owing to the Specie Circular, which was created to present another panic like the one that occurred in 1819 owing to the 2nd bank's artificial financial bubble which they themselves popped (1819 was a major reason Jackson wanted to break the 2nd bank). When British credit tightened combined with Nicolas Biddle's shrinking of credit owing to Jackson vetoing the renewal of the 2nd bank in 18322, the 1836 panic set in. Industrial east coast cities in the north were hit the hardest by the bank run because the fractional banking system collapsed owing to the fact that they had no gold reserves left and had printed more money than they had gold.

Know your history. I do not have time to explain more, but when I see such a hyperbolic comment I felt I must reply. Jackson was great. Indeed, he was a man of the people.
5 
 Thumb up
6.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trevor McDowall
United Kingdom
Reading
Berkshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
WLMIV wrote:
Jackson was the 2nd best next to Jefferson. It all depends on your view of the world and whether you support statism or not.

Jackson founded the Democrat Party out of the Democratic-Republican Party whose origins are traced back to Jefferson, the anti-Federalists.

Jefferson himself is the intellectual ancestor Jackson with Jefferson's version of the Democratic-Republican Party formed with Madison in 1792. Jackson's Democratic Party emerged out of the era of Good Feelings after the Corrupt Bargain of 1824 between Adams and Clay to make Adams president in order to protect the American System of government subsidies to business and the national bank both of which Jackson opposed.

Prior to the formation of the fourth party system in 1896 and Woodrow Wilson's Progressivism/War Socialism right up through Grover Cleveland the Democrat's represented laissez- faire, individualism, and opposition to the use of the state for an oligarchic elite as represented by Adam's National Republicans and Clay's Whigs.

Hamilton's Federalist Party was the intellectual ancestor to Adams and Clay. The Federalist party collapsed in 1816 owing to their support for the British in 1812 and the resounding American victory against the British by which Jackson played no small part at New Orleans despite the Treaty of Ghent already being signed. Hamilton, Adams and Clay all represented the interests of the economic elite. Hamilton, Adams, and Clay favored an industrialized nation of wage laborers. More importantly Hamilton, (both) Adams, and Clay favored the national bank (owned by private moneyed interests), government subsidies to business, the tariff, and infrastructure. Their view was in contrast to Jefferson's (and later Jackson's), vision of a physiocracy of non-slave holding yeoman farmers in order to preserve republicanism (meaning the people's ability to elect their own representatives which a nexus of government, private bankers, and industry threatened). Hamilton, Adams, and Clay did not favor the idea of Federalism which represented a power sharing agreement between the states and the central government with limited powers to the central government enumerated the Constitution and all other powers possessed by individuals and the state as enumerated in the 9th and 10th Amendments respectively.

1828 was a bitter election owing to 1824 and the slander by both sides. Jackson vowed to break the 2nd bank which he would do. While the Jacksonians did not produce a body of literature like the Jeffersonians did, they opposed internal improvements at the Federal expense, they opposed the national bank and government granted monopolies (which the bank was), and sympathy for the small yeoman farmer. The principles of the Jacksonians were an dogged support for laissez faire and opposition to monopoly and privilege for the elites. They attempted preserve individualism while minimizing aristocracy, rank and class through the use of the state to aggrandize special interests.

If you want to attack Jackson for the trail of tears, the ongoing Georgia-Cherokee dispute, the decision of the Creek Indians to side the with British in 1812 led Jackson to put a final end to the matter. With the exception of the Cherokee all removal of the five civilized tribe were carried out under treaty. Indeed the Cherokee represented by a negotiator named John Ridge also signed a treaty. The Cherokee tribal leaders disputed his representation after the treaty was signed.

If you want to criticize Jackson for the Panic of 1836 owing to the closure of the 2nd bank, there were other factors involved. There was plenty of money available. The problem was that it was mostly in the west owing to the Specie Circular, which was created to present another panic like the one that occurred in 1819 owing to the 2nd bank's artificial financial bubble which they themselves popped (1819 was a major reason Jackson wanted to break the 2nd bank). When British credit tightened combined with Nicolas Biddle's shrinking of credit owing to Jackson vetoing the renewal of the 2nd bank in 18322, the 1836 panic set in. Industrial east coast cities in the north were hit the hardest by the bank run because the fractional banking system collapsed owing to the fact that they had no gold reserves left and had printed more money than they had gold.

Know your history. I do not have time to explain more, but when I see such a hyperbolic comment I felt I must reply. Jackson was great. Indeed, he was a man of the people.


Ah, a historical game/ sci-fi mash-up. Suddenly I'm more interested! cool
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.