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Subject: Tokugawa Shogunate and Lakes rss

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Travis C
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I saw a similar thread that was mostly around Polania and it made me think we've been playing Tokugawa incorrectly.

Once they unlock their mech ability, we've been playing that they can teleport to any one lake. I'm starting to think that's incorrect.

What is the ability? My first thought was that lakes basically just become a standard hex that mechs and character can move into, but that seems so weak comparatively I'm not sure how they could be competitive being so far away from everything. They don't start with wood or a village so building a mine would be difficult.
 
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Sam Gray
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Your first thought is correct. Their character and mechs can move to lakes like normal territories (as long as workers don’t get left behind or leave by themselves) but they can also play an extra combat card during all combats on lake hexes in which they are involved.
 
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Steven St. John
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to_mars wrote:
My first thought was that lakes basically just become a standard hex that mechs and character can move into, but that seems so weak comparatively I'm not sure how they could be competitive being so far away from everything. They don't start with wood or a village so building a mine would be difficult.


I rather like that ability. Only 2 other factions have the power to use lakes (except in some scenarios in The Wind Gambit expansion). If those are in the game, the +1 combat card can create a combat advantage. If those are not in the game, Togawa has the ability to occupy as many as 5 of those lakes for uncontested territory scoring. The ability also reduces the ability of other factions to inhibit your movement.
 
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Travis C
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SJS1971 wrote:
to_mars wrote:
My first thought was that lakes basically just become a standard hex that mechs and character can move into, but that seems so weak comparatively I'm not sure how they could be competitive being so far away from everything. They don't start with wood or a village so building a mine would be difficult.


I rather like that ability. Only 2 other factions have the power to use lakes (except in some scenarios in The Wind Gambit expansion). If those are in the game, the +1 combat card can create a combat advantage. If those are not in the game, Togawa has the ability to occupy as many as 5 of those lakes for uncontested territory scoring. The ability also reduces the ability of other factions to inhibit your movement.


The extra combat card is certainly nice for combat,but as you mentioned, only two others who can even move onto lakes, how likely is it that combat will occur on a lake? I haven't tried it, but occupying that many lakes doesn't seem strategically sound, if even possible since there's no speed upgrade, and moving from one lake to another would take at least two move actions.
 
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Henry Seymour
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to_mars wrote:
moving from one lake to another would take at least two move actions.


The lakes are not connected together like tunnels, they just become legal hexes to move onto and off of.
 
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Steven St. John
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to_mars wrote:
SJS1971 wrote:
to_mars wrote:
My first thought was that lakes basically just become a standard hex that mechs and character can move into, but that seems so weak comparatively I'm not sure how they could be competitive being so far away from everything. They don't start with wood or a village so building a mine would be difficult.


I rather like that ability. Only 2 other factions have the power to use lakes (except in some scenarios in The Wind Gambit expansion). If those are in the game, the +1 combat card can create a combat advantage. If those are not in the game, Togawa has the ability to occupy as many as 5 of those lakes for uncontested territory scoring. The ability also reduces the ability of other factions to inhibit your movement.


The extra combat card is certainly nice for combat,but as you mentioned, only two others who can even move onto lakes, how likely is it that combat will occur on a lake? I haven't tried it, but occupying that many lakes doesn't seem strategically sound, if even possible since there's no speed upgrade, and moving from one lake to another would take at least two move actions.


I think it depends a lot on how many players there are and how much others are expanding.

Togawa is harder to move than the base game factions without Speed, but we've certainly had 3 player games where they can win a lot of territory. With the traps they have the potential to hold more than any other faction. (A faction is normally limited by 1 character + 4 mechs + 8 workers = 13, though most games end with fewer workers than 8 and most people sensibly guard their workers with mechs, so the typical number is less. Togawa can add 4 traps.) Also because of traps, Togawa is wise to take the Move action several times.

It's not just lakes and traps, but they also have a flexible Riverwalk ability. This allows them to potentially get to corners of the board that other factions can't.

Of course, if there are 4 or 5 other factions on the board interested in expansion and willing to disarm the traps, it's hardly easy.
 
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Travis C
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Dracore wrote:
to_mars wrote:
moving from one lake to another would take at least two move actions.


The lakes are not connected together like tunnels, they just become legal hexes to move onto and off of.


Which is why it would take two move actions, right? Otherwise it would just be one.

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It's not just lakes and traps, but they also have a flexible Riverwalk ability. This allows them to potentially get to corners of the board that other factions can't.


That's true; I hadn't considered that. This will definitely trip me up as we play our next game. I'll have to think about how I can expand into the other inlets.
 
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Good ones.

And with the knowledge many opponents don't visit a hex with a trap place that trap on a lake. Easy territory claiming in the end game.
 
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