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Subject: Ignore attack rss

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Ashley K
Australia
Victoria
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How do ignore attack effects, such as on Onamor's skeletons and Auriel's illusory image, interact with attacks that lead to additional attacks such as Raiders' duel wield? (If the Raider rolls a lightning on his sword attack he then attacks again wih his knife)
Is an ignored attack never rolled/activated so no additional effects proc (eg crit, poison) or does the skeleton take the first attack but if lightning is rolled, the knife attack is still live?
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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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The second attack still go off.

You get to ignore the attack, but the attacker still gets to do things that have nothing to do with you.

If, for example, the attacker would say "Bolt : Heal 2 HP to yourself"
Then he would still get the heal even if you ignore the attack.

Therefore, Bolt : Attack again
still applies
 
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Rezard Vareth
United States
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I'm not so sure. If I use ritual dagger against the shaman and his spirit shield procs, I'm not convinced I get the 3 HP healing.
 
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efren almenglo
Spain
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RezardVareth wrote:
I'm not so sure. If I use ritual dagger against the shaman and his spirit shield procs, I'm not convinced I get the 3 HP healing.


Why not? You can active all the effects on hit stage. Before def stage the target ignores attack & effects, but they were already activated.

Dual weild is activated on hit stage but target cannot prevent about this.

If it is not the sense of "ignore enterely the attack" i think it would beeen worded as: "anulate hit dice results".


Saludos
 
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Rezard Vareth
United States
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An instant crit would apply as well, though, since it's a damage source other than the attack.
 
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efren almenglo
Spain
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RezardVareth wrote:
An instant crit would apply as well, though, since it's a damage source other than the attack.


I think critc will apply if you're forced to defend the attack. Before def stage as well, but just after the attemp to avoid the attack.
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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RezardVareth wrote:
I'm not so sure. If I use ritual dagger against the shaman and his spirit shield procs, I'm not convinced I get the 3 HP healing.

I don't have the card in front of me, does it say you heal damage or that you heal the damage you dealt?

If it's the former I'd say yes and if it's the later I'd say no.
 
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efren almenglo
Spain
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
I'm not so sure. If I use ritual dagger against the shaman and his spirit shield procs, I'm not convinced I get the 3 HP healing.

I don't have the card in front of me, does it say you heal damage or that you heal the damage you dealt?

If it's the former I'd say yes and if it's the later I'd say no.


 
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Rezard Vareth
United States
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
RezardVareth wrote:
I'm not so sure. If I use ritual dagger against the shaman and his spirit shield procs, I'm not convinced I get the 3 HP healing.

I don't have the card in front of me, does it say you heal damage or that you heal the damage you dealt?

If it's the former I'd say yes and if it's the later I'd say no.
I mean, it doesn't really matter what you would say.
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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It says Heal, so yes, you still get to heal.
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Rezard Vareth
United States
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GrandMasterFox wrote:
It says Heal, so yes, you still get to heal.
This is just you theorizing, though.
 
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Rezard Vareth
United States
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For what it's worth, the rules reference offhand that crits are walked back if the enemy ignores the attack.
 
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efren almenglo
Spain
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RezardVareth wrote:
For what it's worth, the rules reference offhand that crits are walked back if the enemy ignores the attack.


In that case it is already easier to me to attempt avoiding the attack and the apply crit if it procees
 
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Rezard Vareth
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My point is just that I think people are giving rules answers without a basis in the rules. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
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Jee Fu
United States
Maryland
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Typically in gaming vernacular (at least in every game Ive ever played), "ignore a thing" means "the thing still happens, but some subset of dudes (usually 1) remain unaffected" and "cancel a thing" means "the thing doesn't happen at all, and therefore neither do any associated triggers/effects".

I dunno whether that applies here, as the "walk back the Crit" ruling could be indicative of either a partial ignore or a total cancel so that's no help.

- Jee
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efren almenglo
Spain
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In example. In a group of enemkes an attack with AOE will affect all but who ignores attack. But it doesn't cancel attack for others enemies on same area
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Rezard Vareth
United States
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Inspector Jee wrote:
Typically in gaming vernacular (at least in every game Ive ever played), "ignore a thing" means "the thing still happens, but some subset of dudes (usually 1) remain unaffected" and "cancel a thing" means "the thing doesn't happen at all, and therefore neither do any associated triggers/effects".

I dunno whether that applies here, as the "walk back the Crit" ruling could be indicative of either a partial ignore or a total cancel so that's no help.

- Jee
Right, but you already reverse any other effects (conditions, bash) you applied in the hit stage. So it's not a pure ignore.
 
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Rezard Vareth
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Fwiw, I think it's reasonable to say that other effects go through (aoe, heal self). I'm just not convinced that it is he only reasonable reading.
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Jee Fu
United States
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RezardVareth wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
Typically in gaming vernacular (at least in every game Ive ever played), "ignore a thing" means "the thing still happens, but some subset of dudes (usually 1) remain unaffected" and "cancel a thing" means "the thing doesn't happen at all, and therefore neither do any associated triggers/effects".

I dunno whether that applies here, as the "walk back the Crit" ruling could be indicative of either a partial ignore or a total cancel so that's no help.

- Jee
Right, but you already reverse any other effects (conditions, bash) you applied in the hit stage. So it's not a pure ignore.

Do you reverse them just on the guy who ignored the Attack or do they actually get removed FROM the Attack itself?

Conditions and Bash are all "things that happen to models affected by the Attack" so the fact that we're intended to walk those back after an "ignore" effect isn't a solid indication of whether or not an ignore is supposed to be the same thing as a cancel; from the "guy who ignored the Attack"'s perspective, those kinds of effects are gonna get walked back no matter. The real question is "do things that trigger from the Attack - but have nothing to do with the guy ignoring it - still happen IF he ignores it"?

- Jee
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T Owen
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Crits do not get applied if an attack is ignored.

Quote:
The only way for the defender to avoid the critical is to completely ignore the attack by using some special items & powers.
Sect 10.1 pg 35

So if a crit can be ignored, then any special effects triggered by an ignored attack should also be dismissed as it never happened.
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efren almenglo
Spain
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For me. "Ignore the attack" isn't the same that "cancel the attack".
In other words you can ignore something that is happening but you cannot cancel something that's happennig.



All the effects are triggered on hit stage. You simply ignore the part against you.
Obviously a critic agaisnt you may be ignore.
Criticals are applied before any other effects is applied (not triggered). I understand at the end of hit stage, as all other effects but critical goes first (green critic or whatever). Some weapons have effects to trigger a critical, so you apply it after triggering effects and sumarize hits.
All the stuff is triggered and active. Defender simply ignores anything what would be applied to him/her

You cannot "cancel" an AOE with FireII attack. You can ignore it for you but not for the others.
You can ignore raider's sword but you cannot ignore what is not directed against you, you cannot cancel Dual Weild.

I"ll play triggering dual weild in an ignored attack.
Maybe i'm doing it wrong but it has more sense to me, at least till designers response.
 
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efren almenglo
Spain
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About critics i dindn't explain it well.

You can apply critcs before apply or activate other effect. It is a tactical advantage cos you will activate the effects you really need. In example you do a critical, draw 1 and it is a k.o. i realize that you don't need to activate k.o effect from the weapon and to i vest that simbol in other effect. Then you apply effects and finally sumarize hits.
Really, this procces is faster in mind and almost simultaneous (i repeat; in mind). But if all this procces can be ignore by defender it is embarrasing to walk back all components. So i keep in mind all the stuff i have activated and if defender doesn't ignore de attack, i apply them in order. I accept that the step between criticals and applying affects may be not overlooked, so i draw crit but i dindn't apply,then i activate all the stuff but not applying, yet, to defender.
I lost that point between crit and aplying effects, but till this moment i didn't get tactical issue with this. I don't see it so realistic, but is a tactical advantage to active effects after this.

Thank you all for your patience. I have some difficult sometimes to explain what i wanna exactly to say.
 
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