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Mice and Mystics» Forums » Rules

Subject: Greedy Roaches clarification rss

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Russell McKinney
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I’ve seen a few questions regarding this, but they are all kind of hard to understand. I understand that if a greedy roach wounds me, they steal a cheese and it goes to the cheese wheel. What about if they roll a cheese while defending? Does the rolled cheese get stolen from me as well, or does that come from the supply?
 
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Aaron Montgomery
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I've always interpreted it as follows, but don't have the rules with me now.

All cheese rolls (whether attacking or defending) come from the supply and go on the cheese wheel (for both normal and greedy cockroaches).

Successful hits by (all) cockroaches result in stealing cheese from the mouse instead of wounding the mouse (if the mouse has cheese). If the cockroaches are not greedy, the stolen cheese gets placed in the supply. If the cockroaches are greedy, the stolen cheese gets placed on the cheese wheel.

Aaron

Edit: added the "if the mouse has cheese clause" since they do normal damage if the mouse has no cheese.
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Thomas Spangenberg
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Any damage caused by greedy roaches take cheese from the mouse's stash and adds it to the cheese wheel.

Example:

Collin has no cheese in his stash, and is attacked by a greedy roach. The roach rolls two hits; Collin rolls one block and one cheese.

In this case, Collin would take no damage, and the cheese he rolled would be added to the cheese wheel.

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Teeka
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Both the above are correct.

Cheese rolled by the roaches themselves, and their stealing ability, are two completely separate things.
The cheese they roll is handled as normal, they only steal on a succesful hit (instead of doing damage).

Important: cheese rolled always happens first, before applying hits/blocks.
So, as Thomas rightly says, if a mouse rolls cheese in defense against a roach, they will first get that cheese and then (might) immediately have it stolen.
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Aaron Montgomery
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Teeka wrote:
Important: cheese rolled always happens first, before applying hits/blocks.
So, as Thomas rightly says, if a mouse rolls cheese in defense against a roach, they will first get that cheese and then (might) immediately have it stolen.


The "cheese rolls are immediate" rule also affects surge timing (and initiative placement) as well (OP asked about initiative placement on another thread). If I'm reading the rules right:

- Last minion on the board is hit and rolls a cheese for defense.
- If this cheese would cause a surge, the surge happens now (while the last minion is still on the board) so new initiative cards are placed at bottom of track.
- Original minion takes the damage and its initiative card is removed.

Because I lose track of what I am doing in combat if I stop to set up a surge, I tend to finish the combat before setting up the surge. However, the minion initiative card goes at the bottom of the track and does not cause a reshuffle of the initiative track since (in theory) the board was never cleared.
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Teeka
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eeyogre wrote:
If I'm reading the rules right:

- Last minion on the board is hit and rolls a cheese for defense.
- If this cheese would cause a surge, the surge happens now (while the last minion is still on the board) so new initiative cards are placed at bottom of track.
- Original minion takes the damage and its initiative card is removed.

That's right.

eeyogre wrote:
Because I lose track of what I am doing in combat if I stop to set up a surge, I tend to finish the combat before setting up the surge. However, the minion initiative card goes at the bottom of the track and does not cause a reshuffle of the initiative track since (in theory) the board was never cleared.

Another thing that comes into play here, is what happens if there already is an initiative card for the surge minion on the board.

For example, if the surge is 2 rats and you trigger that surge while defeating the last current rat, then the 2 new ones appear first, and then the defeated rat leaves play. The initiative card stays where it is, as there were never 0 rats on the board.

On the other hand: if the surge minion is a large minion, say a spider, and the surge was triggered while defeating a spider, the new one can't appear as there already is a spider on the board. Then the defeated spider leaves play, and you remove the initiative card.
So sometimes, timing it like this can work in your favor.

Also, (cornercase): it might be possible that the entry space for the surge minion is next to the space where your mouse is.
In that case, Collin for instance could use Backslash to immediately attack it as it is all still within the same combat.
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Russell McKinney
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Thanks for the help, everyone!
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