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Subject: What is the difference of Civilization and Advanced Civ? rss

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Leonidas Tzortzakis
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Does anyone know the differences of these two games?
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Matthew Brychel
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Ah you had to pick my favorite to ask about -


Advanced Civ enhances the game play by making all the technologies available for all players - in Civ there were a limited #.

Also improves some of the rules and adds even more disasters woo hoo can you say Barbarian Hordes!!!

I love this game and highly reccomend Advanced over Civ.


~007 cool
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Bill Gallagher
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Among the (many) differences are as follows. I'm sure others will elaborate on things I missed:

1. Civilization cards: In the original, you're limited to holding 11 out of (I believe) 16. In Advanced Civilization, you can own all of them (24 - that very rarely happens though). In addition, there's enough for everyone to have all 24; remember that in the original game only Law could be held by everyone (for instance, there were only three Mysticism cards).

There are now five colors rather than four (yellow - religion was added). Mysticism is now blue/yellow.

2. AST: In the original game, you keep advancing as long as you had at least two cities (and met other criteria needed later on). Also, the first player to the end wins.

In Advanced Civilization, the criteria for advancement vary on the epoch. In the late game, you need five cities (among other things) to move forward. In addition, the first player to the end doesn't necessarily win (although it is still the end-game condition).

3. Scoring (not applicable in the original): In Advanced Civilization, everyone tallies their score at the end to see who wins. Total = (cities x 50) + (AST advances x 100) + value of civilization and trade cards.

4. Calamities: In the original, calamities happen after buying Civilization cards. In Advanced Civ, they happen before buying Civilization cards.

In addition, there are more calamities. In an effort to thwart card counters, tradeable calamities aren't necessarily at the bottom of the deck; they're shuffled into the last few cards at the start. In addition, the non-tradeable calamities (which do go on the bottom) no longer have red backs.

Some of the calamities (most notably Civil War) work differently. Also, you're REQUIRED to dole out secondary effects; you cannot elect to ignore them.

5. Trading: In the original, the value of the trade is stated. For instance, if you're trading two Salt (value 3 cards) and an Iron (value 2), you'd say "trading 3 cards worth 11, including Salt").

In the Advanced game, you state the number of cards and two of the cards in the trade.

There are now two commodity types in each deck (1-9). The original deck had two commodity types only in deck 1 (and perhaps 2).

6. In Advanced Civilization, there is a reward for attacking and taking out cities (whether those of other players or pirates).

I'm sure there's stuff I left out...
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Steve Bachman
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Good summation Yuglooc. One question though:

Yuglooc wrote:
Some of the calamities (most notably Civil War) work differently.

It's been awhile since I've played original Civ, but I don't recall any notable changes to Civil War. What changed?
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Kevin Brown
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Corey Hymes wrote:
The trading is much more wimpy and allowing players to retrade calamities is kind of lame.


The retrading calamities is the only change that I really dislike.

In Civ, drawing a calamity was a bummer mostly because you didn't get the commodity from the deck. To make up for that, you knew once you traded it that it was gone for good. It was also easier to target calamities that way.

In AdCiv, you not only get cheated out of a commodity but there's a fair chance that you'll get the damn thing back. Plus it's almost impossible to target the leader with a calamity, as he can send it on somewhere else.
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Runs with scissors
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About 4 hours.
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Brendan Mahony
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bravhart007 wrote:

Advanced Civ enhances the game play by making all the technologies available for all players - in Civ there were a limited #.


This certainly changes the game. Makes it more forgiving to weak play, but far less satisfying in the long run.

Also sets up, 'X is leading so help me win' type gamesmanship.

Making it more forgiving to sub-optimal play really misses the point of playing such a long game, which is that playing game is fun. If winning is your main motivation you are still going to play shorted games since you will get far more wins that way yuk.

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Bill Gallagher
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In Advanced Civ, the "beneficiary" of the Civil War is the player with the most tokens in stock (city counts as 5 for this purpose). In addition, there are more Civilization cards that affect Civil War.

In the original game, you could make any opponent the "beneficiary".
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Bill Gallagher
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New tradeable calamities in Advanced Civilization

Deck 2: Treachery. Person who traded you the card takes one city from you.

Deck 3: Superstition. Reduce three cities (religion cards can mitigate or negate this entirely - for instance, if you have Mysticism and no other religion card, you reduce only two cities).

(deck 4 and 5 may be reversed - been a while since I last played)

Deck 4: Slave Revolt. Fifteen of your tokens on the board do not count towards city support. cities must thus be reduced (replacement tokens do count towards support).

Deck 5: Barbarian Hordes. Fifteen tokens of a color not in play appear in one of your starting areas (the most populated one). Once you've been wiped out of that area, the hordes move on to an adjacent area (leaving behind tokens equal to the support level of that area). This continues until they can no longer attack. The rules are specific in how they move. Note that Engineering and Metalworking bonuses do help the player against the Hordes. Crete is immune to this calamity (as barbarians have no boats).

Drama and Poetry and Music help against Civil War and Civil Disorder in Advanced Civ. Thus they are far more desirable than in the original game (where buying any card worth less than 80 often means you cannot win).
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Tommy Wareing
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brendanm wrote:
bravhart007 wrote:

Advanced Civ enhances the game play by making all the technologies available for all players - in Civ there were a limited #.


This certainly changes the game. Makes it more forgiving to weak play, but far less satisfying in the long run.

Making it more forgiving to sub-optimal play really misses the point of playing such a long game, which is that playing game is fun. If winning is your main motivation you are still going to play shorted games since you will get far more wins that way yuk.


Yup, I concur: most of the possible Civ players I associate with seem to prefer Advanced Civ because the deeper commodity stacks makes them less likely to run out (so everybody's richer), and you need less care in buying Civilisation cards (because there's no hand limit, and sufficient quantities of each card). I dislike this reasoning: it removes a large part of the strategic element of the game, and (in my experience) turns it into a glorified shopping expedition.

I do like the change of victory condition though: the scoring recmoves the "first past the post" condition (that can drastically change the nature of the last few turns of the basic game), and instead means that two cities, 100 points of cards or one advance on the AST are equivalent. So, instead of utterly destroying the leader (to reduce them to zero cities, and move them backward), you only need to ensure you've got two more cities than they have (whether by knocking theirs down, or building your own). Much more in keeping.
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Danny Stevens
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wimble wrote:
brendanm wrote:
bravhart007 wrote:

Advanced Civ enhances the game play by making all the technologies available for all players - in Civ there were a limited #.


This certainly changes the game. Makes it more forgiving to weak play, but far less satisfying in the long run.

Making it more forgiving to sub-optimal play really misses the point of playing such a long game, which is that playing game is fun. If winning is your main motivation you are still going to play shorted games since you will get far more wins that way yuk.


Yup, I concur: most of the possible Civ players I associate with seem to prefer Advanced Civ because the deeper commodity stacks makes them less likely to run out (so everybody's richer), and you need less care in buying Civilisation cards (because there's no hand limit, and sufficient quantities of each card). I dislike this reasoning: it removes a large part of the strategic element of the game, and (in my experience) turns it into a glorified shopping expedition.

I do like the change of victory condition though: the scoring removes the "first past the post" condition (that can drastically change the nature of the last few turns of the basic game), and instead means that two cities, 100 points of cards or one advance on the AST are equivalent. So, instead of utterly destroying the leader (to reduce them to zero cities, and move them backward), you only need to ensure you've got two more cities than they have (whether by knocking theirs down, or building your own). Much more in keeping.


Gotta disagree guys. The change to acquiring civ. cards stops the purchase of those cards from being the BIG strategic decision. It allows the geographic situation, the trade situation to come into their own and allows trying to do one another down to become a useful part of play. The civ cards biggest strategic impact is in the ability they supply for dealing with other civs, reducing calamities and enabling further development, so timing becomes more important than the idea of scarcity of advances available.

This does not favour "sub optimal play", it makes various other strategies the optimal choice, contingent on the state of play.
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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One of the strategic changes to the game from Civ to Advanced Civ is that Egypt and to a lesser extent Babylon and Africa have viable chances of winning the game playing with a full complement of knowledgeable players. This was not really possible in the base game because of the importance of the AST.

A primary driver for Advanced Civilization was to make it more approachable by players who hadn't played before. So the card limits were removed and the AST position made less important. If you are going to play the base game as your introduction to the set, be sure to have someone explain the little nuances that can put you out of a long game early.
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Dominick Riesland
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One additional change not mentioned is that you can now choose ahead of time to play to a time limit. When the time runs out, finish the turn and score. This allows people to commit to an "abbreviated" 8-hour game and be sure to finish on time while having an objective standard for scoring.
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Viktor Karlsson Mantel
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So, do I need the regulat Civilization game, in order to be able to use Advanced Civ?
(Does Adv Civ work as a regular expansion? Or is it a stand alone game?)
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H-B-G
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Tolchock wrote:
So, do I need the regulat Civilization game, in order to be able to use Advanced Civ?
(Does Adv Civ work as a regular expansion? Or is it a stand alone game?)


Advanced Civ is an expansion for the AH version of Civ and you need a copy of that version of the base game to use it.
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