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KeyForge: Call of the Archons» Forums » General

Subject: Help? rss

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Nathan Tolman
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So I got a few decks read the rules, watched a play through video and played with a friend and had a horrible experience playing this.

The rules were not clear on multiple fronts and I just kept getting steamrolled. My main reservation about the game was you never know if you are getting junk or something good or something that is even meaningfully playable in any way, and this experience pretty much confirmed this to me.

Really, what is the appeal of this game and how can I actually enjoy it?
 
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Mikko Saari
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I've yet to see junk in this game. I have six unique decks. One of them seemed pretty bad when I first got it and I almost immediately flagged it for trading, but after playing it couple of times and seeing it actually win the deck I considered my best, I changed my mind.

Assessing deck quality in KeyForge is anything but straightforward, and it will vary a lot depending on the deck you're against. One pair of decks may well be lopsided and favour one of the decks, but playing against other decks may well change the way you assess those decks.

Right now I'd expect practically all decks to be well within the "meaningfully playable" bounds, and it would certainly take at least half a dozen plays against different decks to even start to think something as a bad deck.

My first suggestion would be to make sure you've got the rules right so that you're actually evaluating KeyForge as it's meant to be played.

For me, the appeal of the game is that it's a quick, exciting game, where the game state is in flux, weird things can happen, and there's a good mix of luck, skill and deck power in play deciding who wins. I also really appreciate the fact that while it is a collectible game in a sense, every card is necessary, and I don't end up with hundreds of useless cards I need to store somehow.
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Gwommy the Purple
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Did you read the quick start rules or the entire rule book? Quick start rules are not good (IMHO) for new players. https://op.keyforgegame.com/en/rules/

Other than that, I'd say half the fun is trying to figure out how to use the deck. And if it's really that bad, there is a method for determining a handicap.
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Kevin B. Smith
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I agree that true junk decks are quite rare. As are really awesome decks.

This is a game about making the best of what you are given. That's true at the deck level, and at the turn level with every hand. Most decks have a few cool combos, and a few frustrating anti-synergies. Decks are likely to surprise you once in a while, even after several plays.

If that doesn't sound fun to you, then this probably isn't your kind of game. If it sounds intriguing, then you should probably work on getting the rules down, and give it another try.

Assume that your decks are probably all "average". If one player wins all the time with one deck, trade decks and see what happens. Or set a deck aside if it feels way stronger or weaker than your others, and use comparably-strong decks as you learn the game.
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CD Harris
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NateT wrote:
So I got a few decks read the rules, watched a play through video and played with a friend and had a horrible experience playing this.

The rules were not clear on multiple fronts and I just kept getting steamrolled. My main reservation about the game was you never know if you are getting junk or something good or something that is even meaningfully playable in any way, and this experience pretty much confirmed this to me.

Really, what is the appeal of this game and how can I actually enjoy it?


For starters, one needs to approach this game with a much lighter, what-the-heck attitude than most other games of its general type. Especially when playing the sealed format. Sometimes you just pull a crummy deck and it's best if you can just enjoy the ride and not get too wrapped up in the outcome (happily, there's a format just for those lousy decks which is actually pretty fun). OTOH, sometimes you pull a deck that fits your playstyle like a glove and everything just flows and that's pretty cool, too.

Second, like most games, it takes some time to really get a feel for the cards. The rules, as you rightly noted, are not nearly as clear as they could be. The fact that the starter set doesn't even include the full rulebook is a travesty. But the full rulebook (available on FFG's website as a PDF) is reasonably well-crafted. There are certainly some interactions that aren't obvious and some rulings that many find dubious, but the rules aren't complicated. They just take some getting used to. The cards are so wild, though, that you can sometimes get them to do pretty amazing things. That sort of Oh, wow! moment comes at the cost of the game being swingy and some decks being rather dependent on draw order.

Third, there's a mindset one may well bring from other games that doesn't work in this one. If you played a lot of Magic, you probably fight too much and reap too little, for instance. It's natural enough, but only some decks (the cards in which pretty much impel you towards it) really want to mainly fight.

Fourth, the game is very immediate and tactical. The board state as it now exists is usually paramount. Planning several turns in advance is rarely likely to work out.

If you kept getting steamrolled, switch up decks. If your friend consistently beats you regardless of the deck, then maybe the game just hasn't clicked with you yet. If changing decks helps, figuring out why will certainly help you get better at evaluating decks (something I still suck at ~70 games in with over 20 different decks; I can't really tell if it's decent or not until I play it).

The key (NPI) thing with this game is to not take it too seriously. It's fun in the way Galaxy Trucker is fun, not the way Brass is fun.
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Nushura
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NateT wrote:
[...]
The rules were not clear on multiple fronts and I just kept getting steamrolled. [...]


who are you playing against? Someone else who does not understand the rules? Has your opponent also read the rules?

Have you tried swapping decks with your opponent? If you still get steamrolled clearly the deck is not to blame, is it?
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MGS
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NateT wrote:
So I got a few decks read the rules, watched a play through video and played with a friend and had a horrible experience playing this.

The rules were not clear on multiple fronts and I just kept getting steamrolled. My main reservation about the game was you never know if you are getting junk or something good or something that is even meaningfully playable in any way, and this experience pretty much confirmed this to me.

Really, what is the appeal of this game and how can I actually enjoy it?


I don’t get what you are trying to say.

Is the problem that the you found the rules unclear?

Is it that you keeping losing badly?

Or, is it that you are afraid, you will only be playing unbalanced decks?
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Contig
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Let me reiterate to you or others to not read the quick start rules. Read the complete rules (see above).

Also, the "already constructed deck" method is more likely to be a good deck than one a new player had to make from what they opened. They made a starter set which has preset decks if you're not sure. (Might have to wait for it to be back in stock.)

If you still have rules questions, I would just search the forums or ask if you need help. It's easy to miss things when learning a new game.
 
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