chris thatcher
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13 hours is a very long time for TI4. We normally do it in 7. Our first game with 5 was 7.5 hours. I think once you are experienced it will be 6 hours (I played a 4 player game of Through the Ages that lasted that long..now that was tedious!). Even TI3 was only 10.5 hours for us

And sure, you could play a 1000 games of love letter in that time. But it would not tell the memorable stories TI does.
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Steve Williams
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You could have played 6 other games, yes, but would you come away with 6 stories? Would you come away with even one story as memorable (albeit bitter) as this one?

The game normally plays in 5-7 hours with a fully experienced table. If you and your friends are engaged the entire time, why does it matter if it is one game or 6 games?
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Casey Harmon
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ddlytng wrote:
I thought I was a heavy gamer. I mean, I’ve had Food Chain Magnate and Dominant Species on my shelf for a year now! Just waiting for gamers of my caliber to pull up their boot straps and join me for some real gaming.

Then I played Twilight Imperium 4th Edition.

Food Chain Magnate and Dominant Species are now for trade.

I’m sorry, Splotter.

My bad, Chad.

Let me say that first and foremost, TI4 is an incredible game. The variety and weight of every single decision created a depth to this game that cannot be matched. Pretty much everything you’ve heard about this game is spot on. And despite the weight, it plays fluidly and you’re engaged pretty much all game.

This game hit every checkbox for me. I didn’t know how a board game could possibly replicate the 4X’s so seamlessly but TI4 managed to do it. There was nothing about the game that felt unfair and even though I fell behind it didn’t feel like I was out of the game until probably the last quarter of our play time.

That said, I now see why I can’t be a heavy gamer. It’s not that I don’t have the group. The 4 other guys I played with are all good friends and we set aside time to play this game. We watched How To videos and went over the rules together and made a day of it. We could do this for every heavy game. I can finally run a fast food business. I can finally drive my fellow creatures to extinction.

But I won’t. I don’t want to.

My game of TI4 was weird. Without reading other session reports I can confidently say that our meta was an anomaly. I was seated between Muatt and Arborec as Nekro. The players seated across from me (non adjacent) was Lizex and Xxcha. The player to my right (Arborec) formed an early alliance with Lizex and Muatt. They maintained an alliance for about 4 turns. They expanded into their own areas unopposed and developed a powerful economy quickly. Mecatol wasn’t claimed until turn 5.

My neighbor to the left (Muatt) who gets a War Sun to start the game decides to forgo an early economy and be aggressive early. He expanded into my territory on turn 3 and war began. He rolled 8 hits with a combination of his war sun and fighters and a dreadnaught.

Yes.

8 hits.

Fighters.

I rolled zero.

Zero.

I got wiped.

My total forces were cut in half.

Was he going to come for my home system? I had to refortify. I spent all my tactics on building and using my faction ability to generate command tokens by piggy backing on Technology and gaining resources back by piggy backing on Diplomacy but no one taking Mecatol meant I had no opportunity to use Galactic Threat made my depleted forces remain weak.

The game continues and I managed to rebuild my fleet through piggybacking on Technology and Diplomacy Strategies. Strong enough where he wasn’t comfortable attacking me but not strong enough to force him out. At this point Mecatol had been taken. Lizex was scoring uncontested every turn with Imperial and his neighbors (Arborec and Xxcha) weren’t willing to engage.

He held Mecatol with a carrier, 2 infantry and a Dreadnaught.

The Muatt with his War Sun, Dreadnaughts and fighters was absolutely unwilling to engage. He sat adjacent to Mecatol and build up forces in his home system. At this point I had positioned a newly built fleet behind him to retake my lost system should he try to capture Mecatol.

He never did.

Muatt and I engaged in a Cold War amongst ourselves. The other factions continued to expand and build up their empire while Muatt and I sat there building our forces. Him upgrading. Me trying to defend what remaining planets I have with low resource income. But Muatt, with his early War Sun and forces, who was playing very aggressively towards me, decided to not be aggressive when scoring points. His early aggression took me out of the game and I scrapped together as many points as I could through public and secret objectives but not being able to keep my other neighbor (Arborec) in check lead him to a close victory over Lizex by an agenda card of all things.

I don’t have a problem with being attacked and I don’t have a problem with Muatt’s strategy. I made a pretty critical mistake myself (attacking his War Sun on a later attempt) to reclaim my lost system (rolled zero hits on 7 dice) which further exacerbated my already bad situation and that ultimately sealed the deal for me. Everyone has a strategy they want to execute and sometimes it doesn’t work. But the Muatt player ignored the board state and my warning about starting war so early while the other 3 factions peacefully expanded punished both of us. He ignored public objectives and scoring Mecatol entirely but later complained that he had no opportunities to score points. Well, yeah, you completely ignored scoring in favor of early aggression and then didn’t capitalize on your military advantage.

Muatt came in last with 3 points scoring only on secret objectives. I scored 4 (2 public and 2 secret) and the winner scored 10 on the second to last round’s agenda phase. 2nd place (Lizex) scores 9. 3rd place (Xxcha) scores 5.

Muatt’s neighbors? Me and Xxcha.

So while I think that TI4 is a great game, it made me realize that I like conflict but don’t want to be punished for 13 hours by my own bad play. And definitely not punished by other people’s bad play.

I don't always lose. But when I do, it's more than once a day.

And before anyone says “find a better group”...

No.

I love my friends and I game because of them. If not for them I would probably go back to PC gaming. But I won’t.

I think the Xxcha player said it best.

“I had fun. It’s a good game. But we could have played 6 equally good games in the time we spent playing this.”

I agree.


Wow, we've played back-to-back games in just under 13 hours. That's gotta be a slog!

I've found that generally, the winner(s) of combat are those who don't participate. Fighting just to fight is Not Good. If it doesn't score points, set up to score points, or stop someone else from scoring points (usually for the win), combat really hurts.

It sounds like the Muaat player played a war game, and that generally leads to a loss.

Someone on here said it best: Objectives are the game. The map and units are the distraction.

How do you feel about Terra Mystica? Or Brass? We play a lot of TI4 and sometimes I feel like we should just play back to back games of something as fun but shorter. I've only ever played Food Chain Magnate once and we were just 2 players. Does it really take a long time with more players? Our game went pretty quickly.
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I just dont understand how people play 10+ hour games of TI. It makes no sense to me. We routinely play 6 player games in 5-6 hours.

We just played a game this Saturday. 6 players, 3 total newbies who new nothing of the game. We started at 9am, took an hour to explain some finer points of the rules, setup the galaxy, and gather components. The first action was taken at 9:50, the game was over with a 10 point Yin victory in round 6 at 4:15.

That is total game time of 7:15 with 3 new players, included a rules primer, galaxy setup, and lunch break. When we play with a pre-set map we can get it done in under 6 hours.

If you spend 10, 12, 15 hours playing a single game, any game, I understand why you wouldn’t want to play it again. Quite frankly, I wouldn’t want to play it with you either.
 
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Dudley Tang
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MollyMae wrote:
ddlytng wrote:
I thought I was a heavy gamer...


Wow, we've played back-to-back games in just under 13 hours. That's gotta be a slog!

I've found that generally, the winner(s) of combat are those who don't participate. Fighting just to fight is Not Good. If it doesn't score points, set up to score points, or stop someone else from scoring points (usually for the win), combat really hurts.

It sounds like the Muaat player played a war game, and that generally leads to a loss.

Someone on here said it best: Objectives are the game. The map and units are the distraction.

How do you feel about Terra Mystica? Or Brass? We play a lot of TI4 and sometimes I feel like we should just play back to back games of something as fun but shorter. I've only ever played Food Chain Magnate once and we were just 2 players. Does it really take a long time with more players? Our game went pretty quickly.


You know, I'm embarrassed to admit that I have owned Terra Mystica for 6 months now and it has been unplayed still (got in a trade). I love the idea of it, and it's not beyond my realm of comprehension, but the theme is soooooo boring. I like shiny things. I'm ameritrashy I guess.

I have only played a "learning game" for FCM. To kind of get a feel for mechanics and to speed up the dinner time phase for whenever we do get it to the table. Actually as I write this, I'm taking FCM off my trade list because it really isn't hard teach or play. The games are reported to go long though but I wouldn't know. I'm willing to give it another chance.
 
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Aaron Wood
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Muatt player here - wow, thanks for completely throwing me under the bus!

In my defense, here are several clarifications:

I didn't forgo an early economy, I was trying to expand to the easiest planets myself just like everyone else at the table, and my shortest path to Mecatol was through an asteroid field, so yes, my first "aggressive" action was taking an unoccupied planet that was partway between both our home systems (there were zero planets between my home planet and the Xxcha player, so it didn't make sense to expand that direction).

I was also choosing last (speaker started to my left), which meant I wasn't getting the extra action tokens, free builds, etc, and missed out on several level 1 public objectives because I was too low in initiative order.

I wasn't the aggressor, Nekro attacked my system first (and lost badly)

I actually had the opportunity to almost certainly completely wipe his entire population off the board after a 2nd foolhardy attack that I begged him not to do, and then I made the mistake of showing mercy, as I didn't feel right wiping someone out of a potentially 10+ hour game in the first half. In hindsight, my lack of aggression there actually cost me dearly, because if I had taken over his entire planets, I might've had a chance against the other 3 who were basically working together with very little opposition with each other.

And my first 2 secret objectives were to destroy a Flagship (which he left with VERY little defense), and to destroy a last ground unit with Bombard, so I hesitated in going full bore into Mecatol with just 1 War Sun and like 3 fighters, was hoping to score my 2nd secret objective, so yes, I turned my eye away from Mecatol to try to score 2 secret objectives, but a glitch in the Matrix prevented that (Nekro Flagship has the ability to turn all ground forces into fighters, so when I destroyed them in mid air as fighters, then there went my secret objective)

So no, I wasn't playing a wargame for the sake of playing a wargame, but because I couldn't reach public objectives in time, my faction had a war advantage, and both of my secret objectives pointed me to war! Sorry that you felt like that was me ignoring scoring...

Also, I wasn't adjacent to Mecatol until another player was also adjacent (and actually I believe 2 other players were), with a much stronger force (mostly because I was worried about Nekro coming back at me, which did end up happening). I hoped the current Mecatol player was going to damage the Xxcha player a bit more when he went in there (also hoped that Arborec would make a push in there and I'd be able to clean up after all the battles, but that didn't happen either), but he rolled terribly, and the force in Mecatol was something like 4 Dreadnaughts, when once again while my force did include a War Sun, but didn't have the numbers necessary to take it, and I was also having to defend my flank from the Nekro player who I foolishly left hanging around, and very quickly was able to re-establish a force that threatened havoc on my flank (and Nekro did eventually take several of my planets when I attempted to take a fight to the victory point charging Arborec, whom I correctly identified as the next big risk, but he had a superior economy, and was able to upgrade his ships and I wasn't able to affect him much, so I lost on both fronts there).

I'll also point out that the Nekro player had the chance as Speaker to affect an agenda that would've been super detrimental to Arborec and Xxcha, 2 of the 3 players above us on the score track, with no direct repercussions to himself, but he chose not to, simply because it wouldn't directly give him any sort of victory points. So I hate that I'm being accused of suboptimal play (which I clearly did, no argument there, I did come in last after all! Altho I will argue that my aggresive actions were suboptimal, I actually didn't play aggressively enough, even by Nekro's own comments - "why didn't he push into Mecatol?" But then to have a chance to take 2 players above us down a huge peg was just like a slap in the face. You play to win, and a huge part of that is to drag down the leaders. But I digress.

Oh, and I did actually try to make a push into Mecatol TWICE (once I upgraded my tech to fly through asteroid fields I tried to sneak attack into it using Flank Speed, I would've been able to take a very large force in, but the Xxcha player sabotaged the card, and only a small part of my fleet could get there, and even then I still attempted to take it anyway, even though I probably shouldn't have, it would've taken some great rolling (which I didn't get) because you kept complaining that I wasn't trying to take it). The other time I tried to at least weaken the current Mecatol player enough that someone else could push into the planet (because by this time I had pretty much figured out that I wasn't going to be able to win, so would just try to cause havoc on each of the other players), but neither of the other players followed up my aggression when I took out his smaller ships and left 3 or 4 of his Dreadnaughts damaged.

So I then tried to change tactics and attempt a move at the public objectives of having either 6 similar type planets (cultural, hazardous, industrial), and was only ever able to get to 5 (when I attempted a move towards Arborec to pick up the 6th, he met me in the wormhole and knocked my forces out) or 11 planets outside your home planet, but by then I was too far behind in the resources production, and everyone else had superior forces to mine. The Arborec player (whom no one was attacking for some reason) then was able to swoop in, attack me, and grab a planet or 2 from me because I didn't realize that he had upgraded his range of his Cruisers, so he scored those. So I have no idea why you keep claiming I was ignoring public objectives, I tried to meet every single one of them, but got beat to them every time by the other 3 who were playing way too nice.

I never had more than 10 votes for agendas, when the other 3 all had in the teens, and the Nekro player, who I am betting would've actually allied with me on some of the agendas, part of his factions abilities is that he CAN'T vote. And the one time he was Speaker, he didn't utilize it to punish the leaders. So the 3 of them pretty much had that side of the board, played nice with each other, and then just Arborec came over my way to grab a couple public objectives when I was busy worrying about Nekro attacking me again.

Just out of curiosity, how many times did you engage any of the other players? Yes, I realize it's not a war game, but if you don't attack each other at all, then if you're on the side of the board with less resources, you're going to lose...

And while we're at it, how could I have played any differently? By the end of the first turn, everyone was outproducing me already, I had an asteroid field in my path to Mecatol, and was getting beat to all public objectives (I actually did score one of them, don't remember which one, but I didn't score a 3rd secret objective, altho I did try 2 different ones)

So I HATE that you're blaming your loss on my play. Here on a public forum. Wow.
You attacked first, and then attacked again when I begged you not to, and my biggest mistake was leaving you on the board because I was trying to not eliminate you. And then I get thrown under the bus like this. Not cool man. Not cool.
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Randolph Bookman
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Tariff wrote:
13 hours is a very long time for TI4. We normally do it in 7. Our first game with 5 was 7.5 hours. I think once you are experienced it will be 6 hours (I played a 4 player game of Through the Ages that lasted that long..now that was tedious!). Even TI3 was only 10.5 hours for us

And sure, you could play a 1000 games of love letter in that time. But it would not tell the memorable stories TI does.


Chris nailed it on all accounts.


My experience:

1st game 3 new players was 4 hours

2nd game 5 players 6 hours

3rd game 5 players 5 hours

4th game 5 players 5 hours

5th game 6 players (5 new players) 7 hours.

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Chad Pearson
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I've played TI:4 three times, won twice. No game lasted longer than 6.5 hours (first one). As someone said above: OBJECTIVES, OBJECTIVES, OBJECTIVES! Not sure what every one was doing to not get 10 VP within a reasonable time period.

Also, I don't know what the Muatt player means he was too low in initiative to get public objectives. EVERYONE can score EVERY public objective. It's not one person scores one only. And you can piggy back off anyone's action as long as you have the status tokens to do so.

*caveat* You can only score public objectives if you own your home system, which it sounds like you did. Why I like Saar, no home system to lose!
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Aaron Wood
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Oh my word! No, we played that completely wrong then, we didn’t realize that everyone could each score each public objective!

Wow, that’s just ridiculous then. We played that so wrong I’m ashamed to call myself a gamer.

You should basically ignore everything else above then.

And no wonder it took us freaking forever. Wow.
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Sergio Macias
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ahwood23 wrote:

And no wonder it took us freaking forever. Wow.


No kidding, it's a miracle you were able to finish at all :O
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Kyle BB
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ahwood23 wrote:
Oh my word! No, we played that completely wrong then, we didn’t realize that everyone could each score each public objective!

Wow, that’s just ridiculous then. We played that so wrong I’m ashamed to call myself a gamer.

You should basically ignore everything else above then.

And no wonder it took us freaking forever. Wow.


When I first got TI4 and read through the rules, I thought it was that way too. I didn't read anything that said it was one way or the other (nothing stated a PO can be scored by anyone that I recall) and I just figured they were score-only-once objectives.
 
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ahwood23 wrote:
Oh my word! No, we played that completely wrong then, we didn’t realize that everyone could each score each public objective!

Wow, that’s just ridiculous then. We played that so wrong I’m ashamed to call myself a gamer.

You should basically ignore everything else above then.

And no wonder it took us freaking forever. Wow.



You know, I just tried to find a clear passage stating that multiple players can score the same objective in the "Learn to Play" or the LRR (mostly to point it out in best wisenheimer-manner), but, nope, there isn't one!

I can understand how the use of a control token on an objective might lead to such a misunderstanding!

In any case, it definitely is worth another go. 1) because playing it the correct way means you finish quicker. 2) It means that no player will be completely left behind if he plays to score objectives, because no one can "steal" them from him. And 3), it takes at least one game to understand basic concepts; especially Round 1 is immensely important, because it allows you to build up your forcers round 2.

So have another go at it, and if you have any questions or require clarifications beforehand, this board is the best place to go, and we are always happy to help!
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Michael Carter
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ahwood23 wrote:
Muatt player here - wow, thanks for completely throwing me under the bus!

In my defense, here are several clarifications:

I didn't forgo an early economy, I was trying to expand to the easiest planets myself just like everyone else at the table, and my shortest path to Mecatol was through an asteroid field, so yes, my first "aggressive" action was taking an unoccupied planet that was partway between both our home systems (there were zero planets between my home planet and the Xxcha player, so it didn't make sense to expand that direction).

I was also choosing last (speaker started to my left), which meant I wasn't getting the extra action tokens, free builds, etc, and missed out on several level 1 public objectives because I was too low in initiative order.

I wasn't the aggressor, Nekro attacked my system first (and lost badly)

I actually had the opportunity to almost certainly completely wipe his entire population off the board after a 2nd foolhardy attack that I begged him not to do, and then I made the mistake of showing mercy, as I didn't feel right wiping someone out of a potentially 10+ hour game in the first half. In hindsight, my lack of aggression there actually cost me dearly, because if I had taken over his entire planets, I might've had a chance against the other 3 who were basically working together with very little opposition with each other.

And my first 2 secret objectives were to destroy a Flagship (which he left with VERY little defense), and to destroy a last ground unit with Bombard, so I hesitated in going full bore into Mecatol with just 1 War Sun and like 3 fighters, was hoping to score my 2nd secret objective, so yes, I turned my eye away from Mecatol to try to score 2 secret objectives, but a glitch in the Matrix prevented that (Nekro Flagship has the ability to turn all ground forces into fighters, so when I destroyed them in mid air as fighters, then there went my secret objective)

So no, I wasn't playing a wargame for the sake of playing a wargame, but because I couldn't reach public objectives in time, my faction had a war advantage, and both of my secret objectives pointed me to war! Sorry that you felt like that was me ignoring scoring...

Also, I wasn't adjacent to Mecatol until another player was also adjacent (and actually I believe 2 other players were), with a much stronger force (mostly because I was worried about Nekro coming back at me, which did end up happening). I hoped the current Mecatol player was going to damage the Xxcha player a bit more when he went in there (also hoped that Arborec would make a push in there and I'd be able to clean up after all the battles, but that didn't happen either), but he rolled terribly, and the force in Mecatol was something like 4 Dreadnaughts, when once again while my force did include a War Sun, but didn't have the numbers necessary to take it, and I was also having to defend my flank from the Nekro player who I foolishly left hanging around, and very quickly was able to re-establish a force that threatened havoc on my flank (and Nekro did eventually take several of my planets when I attempted to take a fight to the victory point charging Arborec, whom I correctly identified as the next big risk, but he had a superior economy, and was able to upgrade his ships and I wasn't able to affect him much, so I lost on both fronts there).

I'll also point out that the Nekro player had the chance as Speaker to affect an agenda that would've been super detrimental to Arborec and Xxcha, 2 of the 3 players above us on the score track, with no direct repercussions to himself, but he chose not to, simply because it wouldn't directly give him any sort of victory points. So I hate that I'm being accused of suboptimal play (which I clearly did, no argument there, I did come in last after all! Altho I will argue that my aggresive actions were suboptimal, I actually didn't play aggressively enough, even by Nekro's own comments - "why didn't he push into Mecatol?" But then to have a chance to take 2 players above us down a huge peg was just like a slap in the face. You play to win, and a huge part of that is to drag down the leaders. But I digress.

Oh, and I did actually try to make a push into Mecatol TWICE (once I upgraded my tech to fly through asteroid fields I tried to sneak attack into it using Flank Speed, I would've been able to take a very large force in, but the Xxcha player sabotaged the card, and only a small part of my fleet could get there, and even then I still attempted to take it anyway, even though I probably shouldn't have, it would've taken some great rolling (which I didn't get) because you kept complaining that I wasn't trying to take it). The other time I tried to at least weaken the current Mecatol player enough that someone else could push into the planet (because by this time I had pretty much figured out that I wasn't going to be able to win, so would just try to cause havoc on each of the other players), but neither of the other players followed up my aggression when I took out his smaller ships and left 3 or 4 of his Dreadnaughts damaged.

So I then tried to change tactics and attempt a move at the public objectives of having either 6 similar type planets (cultural, hazardous, industrial), and was only ever able to get to 5 (when I attempted a move towards Arborec to pick up the 6th, he met me in the wormhole and knocked my forces out) or 11 planets outside your home planet, but by then I was too far behind in the resources production, and everyone else had superior forces to mine. The Arborec player (whom no one was attacking for some reason) then was able to swoop in, attack me, and grab a planet or 2 from me because I didn't realize that he had upgraded his range of his Cruisers, so he scored those. So I have no idea why you keep claiming I was ignoring public objectives, I tried to meet every single one of them, but got beat to them every time by the other 3 who were playing way too nice.

I never had more than 10 votes for agendas, when the other 3 all had in the teens, and the Nekro player, who I am betting would've actually allied with me on some of the agendas, part of his factions abilities is that he CAN'T vote. And the one time he was Speaker, he didn't utilize it to punish the leaders. So the 3 of them pretty much had that side of the board, played nice with each other, and then just Arborec came over my way to grab a couple public objectives when I was busy worrying about Nekro attacking me again.

Just out of curiosity, how many times did you engage any of the other players? Yes, I realize it's not a war game, but if you don't attack each other at all, then if you're on the side of the board with less resources, you're going to lose...

And while we're at it, how could I have played any differently? By the end of the first turn, everyone was outproducing me already, I had an asteroid field in my path to Mecatol, and was getting beat to all public objectives (I actually did score one of them, don't remember which one, but I didn't score a 3rd secret objective, altho I did try 2 different ones)

So I HATE that you're blaming your loss on my play. Here on a public forum. Wow.
You attacked first, and then attacked again when I begged you not to, and my biggest mistake was leaving you on the board because I was trying to not eliminate you. And then I get thrown under the bus like this. Not cool man. Not cool.


It's not like he called you out by name. We wouldn't have known it was you if you never wrote this post.
 
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Sergio Macias
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mlcarter815 wrote:
ahwood23 wrote:
Muatt player here - wow, thanks for completely throwing me under the bus!

In my defense, here are several clarifications:

I didn't forgo an early economy, I was trying to expand to the easiest planets myself just like everyone else at the table, and my shortest path to Mecatol was through an asteroid field, so yes, my first "aggressive" action was taking an unoccupied planet that was partway between both our home systems (there were zero planets between my home planet and the Xxcha player, so it didn't make sense to expand that direction).

I was also choosing last (speaker started to my left), which meant I wasn't getting the extra action tokens, free builds, etc, and missed out on several level 1 public objectives because I was too low in initiative order.

I wasn't the aggressor, Nekro attacked my system first (and lost badly)

I actually had the opportunity to almost certainly completely wipe his entire population off the board after a 2nd foolhardy attack that I begged him not to do, and then I made the mistake of showing mercy, as I didn't feel right wiping someone out of a potentially 10+ hour game in the first half. In hindsight, my lack of aggression there actually cost me dearly, because if I had taken over his entire planets, I might've had a chance against the other 3 who were basically working together with very little opposition with each other.

And my first 2 secret objectives were to destroy a Flagship (which he left with VERY little defense), and to destroy a last ground unit with Bombard, so I hesitated in going full bore into Mecatol with just 1 War Sun and like 3 fighters, was hoping to score my 2nd secret objective, so yes, I turned my eye away from Mecatol to try to score 2 secret objectives, but a glitch in the Matrix prevented that (Nekro Flagship has the ability to turn all ground forces into fighters, so when I destroyed them in mid air as fighters, then there went my secret objective)

So no, I wasn't playing a wargame for the sake of playing a wargame, but because I couldn't reach public objectives in time, my faction had a war advantage, and both of my secret objectives pointed me to war! Sorry that you felt like that was me ignoring scoring...

Also, I wasn't adjacent to Mecatol until another player was also adjacent (and actually I believe 2 other players were), with a much stronger force (mostly because I was worried about Nekro coming back at me, which did end up happening). I hoped the current Mecatol player was going to damage the Xxcha player a bit more when he went in there (also hoped that Arborec would make a push in there and I'd be able to clean up after all the battles, but that didn't happen either), but he rolled terribly, and the force in Mecatol was something like 4 Dreadnaughts, when once again while my force did include a War Sun, but didn't have the numbers necessary to take it, and I was also having to defend my flank from the Nekro player who I foolishly left hanging around, and very quickly was able to re-establish a force that threatened havoc on my flank (and Nekro did eventually take several of my planets when I attempted to take a fight to the victory point charging Arborec, whom I correctly identified as the next big risk, but he had a superior economy, and was able to upgrade his ships and I wasn't able to affect him much, so I lost on both fronts there).

I'll also point out that the Nekro player had the chance as Speaker to affect an agenda that would've been super detrimental to Arborec and Xxcha, 2 of the 3 players above us on the score track, with no direct repercussions to himself, but he chose not to, simply because it wouldn't directly give him any sort of victory points. So I hate that I'm being accused of suboptimal play (which I clearly did, no argument there, I did come in last after all! Altho I will argue that my aggresive actions were suboptimal, I actually didn't play aggressively enough, even by Nekro's own comments - "why didn't he push into Mecatol?" But then to have a chance to take 2 players above us down a huge peg was just like a slap in the face. You play to win, and a huge part of that is to drag down the leaders. But I digress.

Oh, and I did actually try to make a push into Mecatol TWICE (once I upgraded my tech to fly through asteroid fields I tried to sneak attack into it using Flank Speed, I would've been able to take a very large force in, but the Xxcha player sabotaged the card, and only a small part of my fleet could get there, and even then I still attempted to take it anyway, even though I probably shouldn't have, it would've taken some great rolling (which I didn't get) because you kept complaining that I wasn't trying to take it). The other time I tried to at least weaken the current Mecatol player enough that someone else could push into the planet (because by this time I had pretty much figured out that I wasn't going to be able to win, so would just try to cause havoc on each of the other players), but neither of the other players followed up my aggression when I took out his smaller ships and left 3 or 4 of his Dreadnaughts damaged.

So I then tried to change tactics and attempt a move at the public objectives of having either 6 similar type planets (cultural, hazardous, industrial), and was only ever able to get to 5 (when I attempted a move towards Arborec to pick up the 6th, he met me in the wormhole and knocked my forces out) or 11 planets outside your home planet, but by then I was too far behind in the resources production, and everyone else had superior forces to mine. The Arborec player (whom no one was attacking for some reason) then was able to swoop in, attack me, and grab a planet or 2 from me because I didn't realize that he had upgraded his range of his Cruisers, so he scored those. So I have no idea why you keep claiming I was ignoring public objectives, I tried to meet every single one of them, but got beat to them every time by the other 3 who were playing way too nice.

I never had more than 10 votes for agendas, when the other 3 all had in the teens, and the Nekro player, who I am betting would've actually allied with me on some of the agendas, part of his factions abilities is that he CAN'T vote. And the one time he was Speaker, he didn't utilize it to punish the leaders. So the 3 of them pretty much had that side of the board, played nice with each other, and then just Arborec came over my way to grab a couple public objectives when I was busy worrying about Nekro attacking me again.

Just out of curiosity, how many times did you engage any of the other players? Yes, I realize it's not a war game, but if you don't attack each other at all, then if you're on the side of the board with less resources, you're going to lose...

And while we're at it, how could I have played any differently? By the end of the first turn, everyone was outproducing me already, I had an asteroid field in my path to Mecatol, and was getting beat to all public objectives (I actually did score one of them, don't remember which one, but I didn't score a 3rd secret objective, altho I did try 2 different ones)

So I HATE that you're blaming your loss on my play. Here on a public forum. Wow.
You attacked first, and then attacked again when I begged you not to, and my biggest mistake was leaving you on the board because I was trying to not eliminate you. And then I get thrown under the bus like this. Not cool man. Not cool.


It's not like he called you out by name. We wouldn't have known it was you if you never wrote this post.


OP has deleted their original post, probably because of this. Thank the gods for MollyMae who had the insight to quote it for posterity
 
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Sergio Perez
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mlcarter815 wrote:
It's not like he called you out by name. We wouldn't have known it was you if you never wrote this post.


I’m glad he did though, not for any dramatic effect, but because I found the differing perspectives on how the game played out quite interesting.
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Chris Merritt
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GrumblingGamer wrote:

You know, I just tried to find a clear passage stating that multiple players can score the same objective in the "Learn to Play" or the LRR (mostly to point it out in best wisenheimer-manner), but, nope, there isn't one!

I can understand how the use of a control token on an objective might lead to such a misunderstanding!


Glad to get confirmation of this, as while reading this thread I was beginning to wonder if I was mistaken about scoring the public objectives.

My assumption was that everyone could score them, otherwise why use a control token on it, per the rules, instead of just taking the card into your play area? Also, with only ten public objectives and three secret objectives, how could multiple players get close to 10 VP if the public ones weren't shared?

I just got this for Christmas and haven't really delved into the components yet, just read the rules and reference guide. But I will admit, I don't think either booklet flat out states that public objectives can be scored by all players. You just have to infer it by the wording in the rules.

Can't wait to get this to the table at some point!
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COMaestro wrote:

My assumption was that everyone could score them, otherwise why use a control token on it, per the rules, instead of just taking the card into your play area? Also, with only ten public objectives and three secret objectives, how could multiple players get close to 10 VP if the public ones weren't shared?

I just got this for Christmas and haven't really delved into the components yet, just read the rules and reference guide. But I will admit, I don't think either booklet flat out states that public objectives can be scored by all players. You just have to infer it by the wording in the rules.

Can't wait to get this to the table at some point!


Yes, it makes sense once you consider you need at least ten VPs; however, admittedly, the Rule Book lacks clarification on that, especially if you play for the first time. When I think about the mistakes we made on our first play

If you're new to the game, best download/print/safe on your phone the Living Rules document, which is the Rules Reference with an FAQ and Errata attached:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/twilight-impe...
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Yeah I hope they are not too put off. Everyone makes mistakes, ive made some howlers in my time. Have another go!

But I gotta say...that story was so....TI!
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Chad Pearson
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Tariff wrote:
Yeah I hope they are not too put off. Everyone makes mistakes, ive made some howlers in my time. Have another go!

But I gotta say...that story was so....TI!


I see your SUSD reference sir, and I applaud you for it.
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Tyrone Johnson
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Quinn's? Is that you?
 
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