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Subject: Item 123 - use OUTSIDE your turn? rss

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Jan Tuijp
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I'm intrigued by item 123:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ring of Skulls ("Summon Skeleton")


Unlike all other items in the city shop this item doesn't specify when to use it. The other items all say 'During your turn', 'When attacked', 'At the start of the round' and so on. 123 just states what it does, not when it does it. In another discussion here item 123 isn't highly regarded given its rather steep price. But if you can use it outside your turn, it is much more powerful.

I couldn't find an answer to this. Any thoughts?

 
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michael ray
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The FAQ says

When exactly can I use an item? Can I use it in the middle of a movement or other ability? Can I use items outside of my turn?
Items are only used during your turn unless it is used as a reaction to an enemy (as per its wording) or during a granted out-of-turn action if the action matches the item's restrictions.


So, I would say no in this case.

Link to the FAQ:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-n...
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A D
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squegeeboo wrote:
The FAQ says

When exactly can I use an item? Can I use it in the middle of a movement or other ability? Can I use items outside of my turn?
Items are only used during your turn unless it is used as a reaction to an enemy (as per its wording) or during a granted out-of-turn action if the action matches the item's restrictions.


So, I would say no in this case.

Link to the FAQ:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-n...


I agree; unless explicitly stated otherwise you may only perform an action on your turn, and all this item does is grant you a "summon" action.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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demax51 wrote:
squegeeboo wrote:
The FAQ says

When exactly can I use an item? Can I use it in the middle of a movement or other ability? Can I use items outside of my turn?
Items are only used during your turn unless it is used as a reaction to an enemy (as per its wording) or during a granted out-of-turn action if the action matches the item's restrictions.


So, I would say no in this case.

Link to the FAQ:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-n...


I agree; unless explicitly stated otherwise you may only perform an action on your turn, and all this item does is grant you a "summon" action.


I'm not convinced. The text doesn't specify any restriction and the summoning is not specified as an action. (Compare Minor Healing Potion: During your turn, perform a "Heal 3, Self" action.)

 
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Jack Spirio
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summoning something is a summon action
 
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Jan Tuijp wrote:
demax51 wrote:
squegeeboo wrote:
The FAQ says

When exactly can I use an item? Can I use it in the middle of a movement or other ability? Can I use items outside of my turn?
Items are only used during your turn unless it is used as a reaction to an enemy (as per its wording) or during a granted out-of-turn action if the action matches the item's restrictions.


So, I would say no in this case.

Link to the FAQ:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-n...


I agree; unless explicitly stated otherwise you may only perform an action on your turn, and all this item does is grant you a "summon" action.


I'm not convinced. The text doesn't specify the summoning as an action. Compare Minor Healing Potion: During your turn, perform a "Heal 3, Self" action.



Given all of the other information on the card, there’s very limited space which is probably why it doesn’t go into as much detail, but summoning something is definitely an action. Between the FAQ entry the other commenter posted and what I originally said, I’m pretty convinced.

Furthermore, even though it doesn’t explicitly say “on your turn” it also doesn’t explicitly say “at any time.”

Since “on your turn” is the default for when items may be used, and since the card doesn’t explicitly state the opposite, common sense dictates that the default would be used.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I don't think there's ever a defined "summon action," but I don't think we need it for this ruling. Michael already pointed out the relevant FAQ entry above, and it has nothing to do with actions:

FAQ wrote:
Items are only used during your turn unless it is used as a reaction to an enemy (as per its wording) or during a granted out-of-turn action if the action matches the item's restrictions.


It's not a reaction to an enemy. Nor are there any out-of-turn actions you can be granted to trigger it. (It doesn't modify a Move or an Attack.)
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Jan Tuijp
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demax51 wrote:
Furthermore, even though it doesn’t explicitly say “on your turn” it also doesn’t explicitly say “at any time.”


Hm. Since all the other items do specify where and when they are to be used, I find this argument not particularly convincing.

demax51 wrote:
Since “on your turn” is the default for when items may be used, and since the card doesn’t explicitly state the opposite, common sense dictates that the default would be used.


Same difference. Common sense dictates that if all the other items state when they can be used, omitting it here is significant.

demax51 wrote:
Given all of the other information on the card, there’s very limited space which is probably why it doesn’t go into as much detail


Now this is the first argument that I actually find convincing (though my experience with DTP makes me wonder again - it's not that difficult to make it fit, with some minor font tinkering).

 
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Adrian Brooks
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Jan Tuijp wrote:


Unlike all other items in the city shop this item doesn't specify when to use it.



The somewhat similar item 35 also doesn't say when you can use it.
Likewise 115, 132

On your turn, though.
 
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Josh Kanehen
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Darren of course has it right. The FAQ says that all items must be used on your turn unless they meet one of the two conditions following. This item doesn't meet either so it must be used on its turn.

That said, speaking to the value of the item, that's entirely dependent on party composition and build style. We ignored the card since we found it, but now have two party members that both want it.
 
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Alex Florin
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Dexter345 wrote:
I don't think there's ever a defined "summon action," but I don't think we need it for this ruling. Michael already pointed out the relevant FAQ entry above, and it has nothing to do with actions:

FAQ wrote:
Items are only used during your turn unless it is used as a reaction to an enemy (as per its wording) or during a granted out-of-turn action if the action matches the item's restrictions.


It's not a reaction to an enemy. Nor are there any out-of-turn actions you can be granted to trigger it. (It doesn't modify a Move or an Attack.)


This. As noted, it is covered by the FAQ restrictions.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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Slow Dog wrote:
Jan Tuijp wrote:


Unlike all other items in the city shop this item doesn't specify when to use it.



The somewhat similar item 35 also doesn't say when you can use it.
Likewise 115, 132

On your turn, though.


We haven't unlocked these items yet.
 
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Ben Martell
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Jan Tuijp wrote:
demax51 wrote:
squegeeboo wrote:
The FAQ says

When exactly can I use an item? Can I use it in the middle of a movement or other ability? Can I use items outside of my turn?
Items are only used during your turn unless it is used as a reaction to an enemy (as per its wording) or during a granted out-of-turn action if the action matches the item's restrictions.


So, I would say no in this case.

Link to the FAQ:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1897763/official-faq-game-n...


I agree; unless explicitly stated otherwise you may only perform an action on your turn, and all this item does is grant you a "summon" action.


I'm not convinced. The text doesn't specify any restriction and the summoning is not specified as an action. (Compare Minor Healing Potion: During your turn, perform a "Heal 3, Self" action.)



The FAQs are the compiled responses of the game creator only, not guesses from the community. So you can rely on the answers there fully. You can’t use a summon item out of turn.
 
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Jan Tuijp
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benmartell wrote:


The FAQs are the compiled responses of the game creator only, not guesses from the community. So you can rely on the answers there fully. You can’t use a summon item out of turn.


I know. But this question is not specifically addressed. You're all probably right but I'm still curious why the designer didn't specify timing as he did with most other items.

 
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Jack Spirio
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Jan Tuijp wrote:
benmartell wrote:


The FAQs are the compiled responses of the game creator only, not guesses from the community. So you can rely on the answers there fully. You can’t use a summon item out of turn.


I know. But this question is not specifically addressed. You're all probably right but I'm still curious why the designer didn't specify timing as he did with most other items.



Some items changed in the second edition to get better timing explanations (like the healing potion you mentioned)
It appears everyone understood the use of summon items, so it wasn’t necessary to change them too
 
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Sajuro
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You can just house rule it if you really want to use it that bad.
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Phil Greenfly
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As it was already mentioned above, you can only use items during your turn unless stated otherwise by the item. This item grants you a summon action to summon an ally, and IMO mostly due to the space limitations and design of the item card, there is no additional text. Bottom line, each and every item that lets you summon an ally can be used only during your turn.
 
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michele c
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I agree, you can't use it outside your turn.

But you can use it in the middle of a movement, right? As far as I understand, the item doesn't grant an action (as Darren said, there is nothing as a 'summoning action'), so it can be used during another action.

Can someone contradict/confirm this?
 
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