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Subject: Next step on from Concordia rss

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Jay Robinson Robinson
United Kingdom
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I need some advice on what to purchase next after playing Concordia and really liking it.

Having only just got into board gaming as a hobby in latter end of last year, I thought it'd be a step too far for myself and my friends with it's 'complexity' rating of 3 on BGG but it was super simple to grasp and really intuitive, in fact a lot more so than Stuffed Fables which I bought for my son for x-mas which, despite being enjoyable, resulted in a lot of rules rechecking.

It's left me a bit bemused as to what complexity actually means - I thought Brass might be a good fit but after watching some video reviews online they keep mentioning the complexity and I think it would be too much for us.

Anything considered but we'd prefer to stay away from fantasy themes (Orcs, Elves etc..)

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Steve Rowlands
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Surprised concordia is weighted 3.09....

Similar weight but different to what you have:

Orleans. I would say similar weight to Concordia. Rather than just read the rules you could also watch some playthroughs (you may already do this)

Another option is Endeavour Age of Sail.

So many choices and you may find you have more recommendations than you can cope with.

Have fun with whatever you go for and I would suggest avoid getting sucked in to buying loads as you will not get time to play them!!

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Chris in Kansai
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I'd suggest some classics like

Puerto Rico
Power Grid
Tigris & Euphrates
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Ian Bennetts
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You may want to consider more Concordia:

Concordia: Salsa - Introduces a new resource (Salt) along with the Forum which offers you either one-off or permanent abilities when you 'Tribute'. Also 2 maps.

Concordia Venus - Brings the option of team play and new maps.

Concordia: Aegyptus / Creta - Just a pair of maps but they each have a slight addition to the base rules that adds a bit of variation to the base game. I think this also comes with an alternative track for the personality cards but with different costs.
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James Richards
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Concordia really does excel at giving a rich experience with very little rules overhead just because it is so very well streamlined, the complexity really comes from puzzling out the best moves with the available resources better than other players, rather than than trying to find the best way to optimise the system itself. I have over 30 plays of Concordia and it is still one of my favourites and the benchmark against other games (not that it is my favourite game of all time, but its such a solid game with streamlined rules). I think sometimes 'next step' is misleading as it assumes you will move onto 'better things' when Concordia is a damn fine game as is. If you have not done so already, both the Salsa expansion and some of the tighter maps change up the game without creating much more complexity.

Then seeing as your actually looking for a recommendation, I would say Terraforming Mars would be a good fit, the turn order is straight forward enough and much of the heavy lifting on the rules comes from the cards themselves, it is perhaps not as streamlined as Concordia, but it does scratch a similar itch. It has been reviewed and discussed to death so watch a few videos and see what you think.

Peace
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David op De Beeck
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Bgg weight is pretty meaningless without more information. I see many people just picking out games by weight which is rediculous. My 12 year old daughter plays the Gallerist (weight 4.28) and Tramways (weight 3.82). To me and many I suppose Tramways is way more difficult then The Gallerist. I've taught the Gallerist to non gamers and experts alike. Most get it pretty fast, and by the end of the game it all clicks and they are ready for their second game. For some it's to much interlocking parts and they break.

Then there's GMT games, a moderate complexity of 5 on the GMT scale (which goes to 10) is usually really heavy, with a lot of rules. Fallen Sky for instance I can easily compare to Lisboa in terms of how taxing it is for me to play it.


Concordia while rules light is not an easy game, it is race and has a lot of interaction. Orleans as suggested by Steve does not have as much interaction making it a far easier game. You can script Orleans and play it exactly the same way every time.


So while you can handle Concordia which is medium weight in terms of in game complexity but rules light. You will have to adjust to games with more complex rules. This is just a learning process, it will take time to learn a game like this but once you get it you'll notice that it's not that hard to actually play it. You just need to deal with that rules barrier. Youtube usually helps as there are many resources that do playthroughs and rules explenations. Using a combination of the rulebook and youtube uasually helps to learn even the more complex stuff.

A game I liked a lot when I was playing concordia and simular games was Railroad Revolution which is an excellent game by an excellent publisher (and if it's your thing other games by the same publisher will be to your liking as well). Be sure to download the v1.3 rules from the What's Your Game website that fix balance issues.

A game like Great Western Trail is fantastic as well but has quite the barrier to learn if no one can teach you. But I'm sure there are youtube movies that help as the game is very popular. It's a very easy to understand game though once you've played your first turn you get it.

Brass is not a beginners game, it's rather rules light but fery opaque and it's hard to connect the dots, really understand how to abuse the system. For me it clicked right away, I love Brass but to many people it's a very dry economic game that they just don't like. Heavy Cardboard has a great playthrough, whatch that and if you like it, get it



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Eric Nolan
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You could look at some of Mac Gerdts (the designer) other games.

Imperial is ineresting and very different to Concordia.

Transatlantic looks appealing and probably more similar to Concordia than Imperial but I haven't played it myself.
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matthew graham

Ohio
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There really should be 2 separate complexity ratings. 1 for rules, and 1 for strategy. Some games get the "minutes to learn, a lifetime to master" and end up with high complexity rating that is unwarranted in my opinion.

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Andrew Plassard
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If you like Concordia, Brass would be a decently large but good step up. In general, Brass also has streamlined rules and interesting gameplay but there are two things that make it a good but deeper than Concordia. First, the economy of Brass is very tight and can be punishing. Getting money and using it efficiently is challenging. Second is the interaction amongst players. Concordia has mostly passive interaction, though that probably changes as you get deeper into your experience with the game. In Brass there is an incredible positive joint interaction where you have to weigh the impact of any decision on you because it will likely positively help someone else at the table.

There will be people who say the randomness of the card draws is a negative about Brass, but I don't agree with them. I think with enough plays and experience with the game you can easily mitigate that and make the best of any hand of cards you're dealt.
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Jay Robinson Robinson
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Some really nice responses here so thanks for that, i'll def be picking my way through the suggestions - whilst i'm perfectly happy playing Concordia again & again i'd like to step up to more complex rules to test myself but i'm at risk of putting my friends off who aren't so into the hobby.

Terraforming Mars might be ideal but then again, partly the reason I like Concordia in the first place is that it was so easy to pick up... just gotta' give a few of the above a try i guess.

A word about interaction - I actually didn't find Concordia all that interactive, unless I was doing something wrong it all seemed very passive with the trading only taking place to the bank, especially compared to our play through of Catan a few months prior which was very talky between the group. It would be nice to have that interactive element to the next game I pick up
 
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Juhan Voolaid
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Feld games
 
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Oliver Dienz
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The interaction in Concordia is more subtle but certainly there:

- "racing" to cities to build there first for cheaper cost
- buying cards before someone else does
- "piggybacking" on resources when someone uses the prefect or taking the money through it at an opportune moment yourself
- blocking someone from their desired spot by placing the colonist on a specific path

What you seem to be looking for is a trading/negotiation game. Finding one with a similar weight and rules complexity is tough. Some options to look into:

Genoa: Lots of trading with the right group.
Chinatown: Pure trading game; lower complexity and easier rules than Concordia.
Trade on the Tigris: Quite new. Rules about as complicated as Concordia.

Tammany Hall: A negotiation, blind bidding, area control game. Can be very cutthroat.
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Jay Robinson Robinson
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ah ok, i've misunderstood what interaction means - i've always presumed it meant actually talking to the other players over matters related to the game at hand!
 
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Jeff Hale
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Mombasa is a step up, but not too fiddly. I am a huge fan of Concordia and really enjoy Mombasa.
 
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Matt Drown
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+1 on Chinatown - rules are straight forward, you can trade for anything....
+1 on Terraforming Mars - it's looks complex, has lots of cards and seems like it shouldn't work. It won't seem as elegant as Concordia, but it does play well, and rewards multiple play (but doesn't require it to enjoy).

I would also add:
Chicago Express - streamlined rules, fast play, great game. Interaction comes from the fact that you partner with different players for different railroads, and the main goal is to get others to do your work for you. Auctions are the direct interaction, while indirect interaction comes with trying to entice your partners to work for you.
Tigris & Euphrates or Yellow & Yangtze - the first is a little more brutal and can seem chaotic. The second is the evolution of the game, changed, and less chaotic (I'm still not sure which i like more). If you are debating, get Tigris first.

Two lighter suggestions, please look at reviews, they are more "out there" then the above:
Bohnanza - a lighter card game, and a bit of a wildcard, but you seemed to like the interaction of trading in catan. Every turn you are trying to trade cards off and make sets. Review watching will immediately tell you if you'll like this game.
Biblios - i think this is back in print, and is another card game. Two distinct parts, the first part of the game is a draft-like experience where you cycle the deck and everyone builds a hand, and a buy pile. The second part you then auction off the buy pile with the cards you just received. May not be complex enough, but plays fast enough to not feel stale in my opinion.

Side note, I found Mombassa super fiddly and annoying, and wouldn't recommend it, with the caveat that I only played it once.

Also, all of the above games are really good with 3+, not so much with 2 (Terraforming Mars works with 2). Are you looking for 3+ players?


Please try to come back and let us know what you liked, or didn't like!
 
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Llyranor Ilfarath
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+1 Power Grid.

It's rated as very slightly heavier than Concordia, but it is not too rules-heavy or fiddly.

Basic elements are: bidding for power plants, buying resources (which become more expensive as players buy more of the same resource), and building routes on a map to power up citiee.
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Eric Gergotz
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Some medium Euros I've found to be pretty simple to learn, but offer a good amount of strategy are Santa Maria, Rajas of the Ganges, and Carpe Diem. Crusaders: Thy Will Be Done might be a good choice as well.

I'd also say Yokohama is pretty simple to play, but it seems very complex when you're first learning it. It looks a lot harder than it really is.
 
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Nikolai
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I play games for fun and pursuing the goal to win the game is fun! :)
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According to your BGG collection, you only own the base game so far from the Concordia family.
So I'd like to reemphasize what has already been said:

If you really like Concordia, get more of it!

Concordia's expansions include a lot of interesting elements to add to the base game.
In my opinion, Concordia: Salsa adds the most good stuff. If the possibility to play team games ("2 vs. 2" or "2 vs. 2 vs. 2" players) sounds important to you, then Concordia: Venus (expansion) is vital for you as well. (In case you aren't interested in team games, it also adds a little something nicely for individual games.)
And then there are three separate map expansions for Concordia so far. The maps which I consider to add the most interesting rule twists are Aegyptus (from Concordia: Aegyptus / Creta and Germania (from Concordia: Britannia / Germania).
 
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Jonathan P
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Haven't seen Clans of Caledonia being named here, a tad heavier. Also an economic engine building resource management game similar to Concordia in many ways.

If you're familiar with the forum tiles, you will notice small similarities with the different clans, which each have their own benefits. You have a market for buying and selling goods based on supply and demand, a prefect-like production round that will give you a number of goods that in return you will have to be resourceful with to expand just like in Concordia. You get a lot of game out of that small box.

Edit: just read you only have the base game, so you probably won't know the reference to the forum tiles. As many suggested get Salsa it makes the game that much better!
 
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Frank de Jong
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So a couple responses/suggestions from me. I would not get an expansion for Concordia. You get way more value from adding a bit more variety to your gaming table, instead of nailing down on a good game with only so-so expansions. In my eyes, they are really only for the die-hard fans of Concordia.

Clans of Caledonia is definitely good, but I fear hard to come by. Not that much wheeling and dealing in it either though.

Terraforming Mars might be a little more talkative (but not a lot), and is certainly a lot messier (not in a bad sense per se) than Concordia. It is a good game, but I would not really put the two on a same-experience kind of level.

Brass: Birmingham is great, but if you fear your friends might be put off by heavy rules/thinking, then it is not for your group.

Orléans is great too and definitely cannot be scripted, since you depend on what your competitors do quite a lot; timing is everything. I think it is still the better game than the newer Altiplano.

I like the suggestion of Tammany Hall, but that game alas is also quite hard to come by in my experience, relatively costly and quite bad production wise. A bit less negotiation and confrontational is it's grand daddy El Grande, a great game with simple rules yet huge tactical possibilities, much like Concordia I think. Also, it has room for deal-making, -breaking and negotiations. Tammany Hall is more direct in confrontation though. Another option, especially if you like the space theme or show/books it is based on, is The Expanse Board Game, which uses El Grande's system (like Tammany Hall does) but adds a bit more direct interaction and a card system. It is not a wargame though, but more a game of tactically moving around assets, making friends and enemies when it suits you.

In that light, you might also wish to check out Inis. It is quite easy to grasp, has a lot of interaction on the table, possibilities for attacking but also for choosing peace and will most definitely get your table talking.

Good luck!
 
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arah
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Concordia rewards with depth in strategy, not in rules lawyering, so you can dedicate your time to develop strategies instead of learning new games.

If you just want more rules for the sake of it, pick any game with 4 or higher. Complexity also involves how hard or deep a game is.
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tom tom
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Orleans for sure. And for something different, try Village, and Kingdom Builder.
 
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Adam P
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Terraforming Mars would NOT be a good choice - high complexity.

Orléans has some rules, but a good next step.

Also consider:
Agricola
Caverna: The Cave Farmers
Five Tribes
Endeavor: Age of Sail
San Juan (second edition)
Samurai
 
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Scott O'Brien
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Other games with easy to learn rules, and difficult to master like concordia:

Keyflower is an auction game with a worker placement mechanic.

Five Tribes is an easy to play game with turn bidding and mancala based movement, collect points and sets of cards.


Brass: Lancashire is good if you can get the newest version, the original is quite bland and ugly. The rules again are rather straight foreward. Play a card, do of 4 possible actions with that card.


Agricola is one I would recommend, its rules are straight foreward, and it comes with both a family version and a complex version after you master the family version.


Also
Viticulture
Quadropolis
Dinosaur Island
Whistle Stop
Warsaw City of Ruins
 
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Travis Johnson
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I definitely agree with the suggestions of Orleans. This was the first game which I played at my game group and fell in love with it. I couldn't stop thinking about the play through and over the next week I was cobbling together my own "deluxified" copy as I had been spoiled with the deluxe Kickstarter edition with all the promos in my first play.
 
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