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Subject: Focus and Ranged Attackers rss

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Joseph Bloom

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I have a question on Focus and Ranged Attackers.

The rules state: "A monster will focus on the enemy figure it can perform its current attack against using the least
amount of movement."

So, if we have a Ranged Attacking monster (Range 3) with a Brute in an adjacent hex and a Scoundrel 3 hexes away, who will the monster Focus on and attack?


We have been playing it as the Brute, but the monster would then take a step back to eliminate Disadvantage and fire away. However, if it had selected the Scoundrel, it could fire with no Disadvantage and no movement. This would imply the Scoundrel. Of course, the rule does say "can" and not "will", and the monster could attack either with zero movement.


What say the arbiters? Does it make a difference if the critter is hemmed in where it won't be able to move to avoid Disadvantage?


Thanks




 
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Mad Mullet
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It chooses its focus before determining whether it can avoid disadvantage.

It attacks the Brute.
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Stephen F
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You have it right.

The first check for a focus is the target that requires the least amount of movement to make any attack. Since both the Brute and Scoundrel are already in range, the next check is who is physically closer. The Brute is 1 hex away and the Scoundrel is 3, so the Brute is the focus.

It doesn't matter whether or not the monster can move away; it only tries to do that after its focus is locked in.
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Dylan Headley
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Not a formal flowchart, but the order generally goes: who do I hate most (the guy in my face), how do I hurt him the best (step away one), and while I'm doing that can I splash something else out to others (look for multiple targets if that's an option). The priority isn't finding the easiest target, it's finding the best target then trying to make it an easier attack.
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Joseph Bloom

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Alright, so if I am following, Focus is determined first by who requires the least amount of movement to strike with an adjacent square based attack, whether or not that is an attack available.

So, Archers will ALWAYS select focus the same as melee attackers?

Look at the example in the Rulebook at the top of page 30. (Brute is Range 2 from "1", but a 4 Move "walk" (due to obstacles), while Tinkerer is a simple Range 3 and 2 Move "walk".) Now make the "1" Living Bones an Archer with a Range of 2. The Archer COULD shoot the Brute with no movement and no Disadvantage. But, instead it will Focus on the Tinkerer who is out of Archery range, but a closer walk and move 1 and fire at him? What about if the Archer is a base Movement 1 and Range 3 and is working with a -1 Move and -1 Range card? Will it still Focus on the Tinkerer, conclude it can't shoot it since it can't move and pass on the available shot at the Brute?

And along those lines, what happens if a melee attack will never be possible? Is Focus still achievale?

Let's say you have some Archers in a wall sectioned off space on the map that has no outlet to the rest of the map. These are not map edge walls, but rather the overlay tile obstacle type wall sections.

They will never be able to move up to any enemy figures. But, enemies are in archery range. Do they determine Focus based on least movement to fire a shot or do they just never fire any shots?

 
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Mad Mullet
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JoeBinFL wrote:
Alright, so if I am following, Focus is determined first by who requires the least amount of movement to strike with an adjacent square based attack, whether or not that is an attack available.


Focus is determined by the least amount of movement to arrive at a hex from which it could make an attack (based on the current attack).

If it does not have an attack, focus is determined in accordance with melee movement. i.e. adjacency to an enemy.

JoeBinFL wrote:
So, Archers will ALWAYS select focus the same as melee attackers?


No. If they have a ranged attack, they will seek the least movement to arrive at a hex from which they could attack a viable target.

JoeBinFL wrote:
Look at the example in the Rulebook at the top of page 30. (Brute is Range 2 from "1", but a 4 Move "walk" (due to obstacles), while Tinkerer is a simple Range 3 and 2 Move "walk".) Now make the "1" Living Bones an Archer with a Range of 2. The Archer COULD shoot the Brute with no movement and no Disadvantage......


No. The Archer WOULD shoot the Brute as it does not require any movement at all to achieve its attack (provided that its ability card signified a ranged attack). It would have to move to attack the Tinkerer if it had a range of 2 so the Brute is its focus.
 
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Joseph Bloom

Florida
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Madmullet wrote:

No. If they have a ranged attack, they will seek the least movement to arrive at a hex from which they could attack a viable target.



Argh! Okay. But let's take this statement and look at my original question where you answered "Brute". The Archer COULD shoot at the Brute OR the Scoundrel with 0 movement.

So, how did you break the tie? Based on the amount of movement for adjacency?


So is the priority order?


Who CAN you attack with the least movement based on the attack you are planning to use? Is that only 1 target?

If yes, move as required to optimize attack (eliminate Disadvantage) or add additional targets or area of effect results.

If No, as in the original example of the adjacent Brute and the Scoundrel at Range 3, where both can be shot with 0 movement, then calculate how much movement would be required to close to melee distance. Is one less than the other(s)?

If Yes, then select the nearest one as Focus and move as required to optimize attack (eliminate Disadvantage) or add additional targets or area of effect results.

If No, then subset to the tied low movement enemies and break the tie using Initiatives.


I think this covers all the possibilities consistently with the answers from above...


Argh! It doesn't. Why does the Brute get attacked instead of the Tinkerer in the Range 2 Move 4 hypothetical example from the Rulebook?

Both could be shot with 0 movement (Brute at Range 2 and Tinkerer at Range 3), but the Brute is a 4 move walk away and the Tinkerer is a 2 move walk away.

Should we look at Range to break the tie before going to the move to melee measure?

So.....

Who CAN you attack with the least movement based on the attack you are planning to use? Is that only 1 target?

If Yes, move as required to optimize attack (eliminate Disadvantage) or add additional targets or area of effect results.

If No, as in the original example of the adjacent Brute and the Scoundrel at Range 3, where both can be shot with 0 movement, then is one a shorter Range shot than the others?

If Yes, move as required to optimize attack (eliminate Disadvantage) or add additional targets or area of effect results.

If No, then calculate how much movement would be required to close to melee distance. Is one less than the other(s)?

If Yes, then select the nearest one as Focus and move as required to optimize attack (eliminate Disadvantage) or add additional targets or area of effect results.

If No, then subset to the tied low movement enemies and break the tie using Initiatives.



 
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Darren Nakamura
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There's a list of priorities in determining focus.

First priority: least movement to make an attack. In your example, Brute and Scoundrel are tied at zero movement.

Second priority: absolute proximity. In your example, the Brute is closer than the Scoundrel, so the Brute is the focus.

Third priority: initiative order. In your example, we didn't need to go this far.

---

Then, once you've determined focus, you determine what the monster will actually do with this focus. Which is, in this case, to take one step away from the Brute to lose Disadvantage and make its attack.
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michael ray
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JoeBinFL wrote:
Madmullet wrote:

No. If they have a ranged attack, they will seek the least movement to arrive at a hex from which they could attack a viable target.



Argh! Okay. But let's take this statement and look at my original question where you answered "Brute". The Archer COULD shoot at the Brute OR the Scoundrel with 0 movement.

So, how did you break the tie? Based on the amount of movement for adjacency?


So is the priority order?


Who CAN you attack with the least movement based on the attack you are planning to use? Is that only 1 target?

If yes, move as required to optimize attack (eliminate Disadvantage) or add additional targets or area of effect results.

If No, as in the original example of the adjacent Brute and the Scoundrel at Range 3, where both can be shot with 0 movement, then calculate how much movement would be required to close to melee distance. Is one less than the other(s)?

If Yes, then select the nearest one as Focus and move as required to optimize attack (eliminate Disadvantage) or add additional targets or area of effect results.

If No, then subset to the tied low movement enemies and break the tie using Initiatives.


I think this covers all the possibilities consistently with the answers from above...




Yes, basically correct

Focus:
1. Closest viable attack hex
if tied:
2. Closest enemy*
if tied:
3. Lowest initiative

Now that you have focus:
Make your attack as good as you can.
1. Move out of disadvantage
2. Move to hit multiple enemies if your attack is multi-target, if it keeps you out of disadvantage

So in your case:
Focus:
1. Closest viable attack hex (Brute and scoundrel tied)
if tied:
2. Closest enemy (Brute now wins)
if tied:
3. Lowest initiative (You never got here, stop reading, why are you reading still)

*I forget if you use closest as the crow flies or closest in terms of movement first, but it's one then the other, and rarely matters.
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Mad Mullet
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JoeBinFL wrote:
Madmullet wrote:

No. If they have a ranged attack, they will seek the least movement to arrive at a hex from which they could attack a viable target.



Argh! Okay. But let's take this statement and look at my original question where you answered "Brute". The Archer COULD shoot at the Brute OR the Scoundrel with 0 movement.

So, how did you break the tie? Based on the amount of movement for adjacency?


Right.

So.. 1) Minimum amount of movement required to perform the current attack (with melee assumed if no attack on the ability card).

2) Proximity. If the Brute is on an adjacent hex and the Scoundrel is 3 hexes away, the Brute is the focus.

3) Initiative order. If there are two viable focuses, then the enemy that is going/has gone earlier in the initiative order will be the focus.

4) If all of that is identical (possible if two players are doing a long rest), players decide.

That determines the focus so that process takes place first.

Now.... the monster tries to minimize disadvantage if at all possible. If it is a ranged attack next to an adjacent target, it will try to move (unless Muddled).

Finally, it will try to add additional targets (under the same focus rules) if it has an ability that enables it to do this.
 
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Brandon Price
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https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/144945/gloomhaven-enemy-f... I highly recommend this flowchart for determining...
 
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