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Subject: Trivia game etiquette - THE POLL! rss

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A trivia game is being played of the kind where a moderator reads a question and the first player to shout their name gets to answer first, followed by the other if they get it wrong. As the moderator starts reading the preamble to the next question, player A guesses what the question is, shouts their name and gives the answer. After the moderator resumes reading the question, how should this be handled?

Poll
Assuming there are no explicit rules stating at which exact point it is OK to answer, player A should be considered to have given their answer first and the normal procedure should be followed based on that.
Player A's answer should be considered a random outburst out of turn. They don't get priority, but nor have they forfeited the chance to answer normally, so it comes down to shouting the fastest at whichever point it would normally be considered fine to do so.
Player A has indeed given an answer, but since there wasn't yet a question at the time they did it, it is always considered wrong. Hence player B gets to answer.
Depends on whether the question was about bacon. Did you know I have coated the walls of my game room with strips of bacon using thumbtacks
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Poll created by Kaffedrake
 
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Mario Lanza
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Shouting your name is kind of like hitting the buzzer on Family Feud. However, lacking a real buzzer, this rule seems kind awkward. Why not just shout out the answer?
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AJ Cooper
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If the answer is correct, it counts. In the more likely case that the answer is wrong, player B has right of way for the remainder of the allotted time.
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Brendan Slade
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It definitely counts but hopefully the end of the question will change the answer somewhat and they will then be wrong
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P.D. Magnus
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I answered the first option, but a trivia game like this needs an explicit rule about the point at which it’s OK to answer.
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Thomas M
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pmagnus wrote:
I answered the first option, but a trivia game like this needs an explicit rule about the point at which it’s OK to answer.
Yup. Games without such rules should not exist.
It is entertainment, just like how twister is entertainment, but not games in a competitive way. In English "game" mean a lot of things. Other languages distinguish between "playing", "goofing around", "passing time", and playing a game with set rules and mechanics.
Personally I draw the line more extremely towards game mechanics. I do not consider anything where not all the "content" is in the box. Players choosing what to do is fine, but not players "doing" moves (and failing) or "knowing" information, such as trivia. I do not consider those games. But of course people are entitled to their own definitions.

Also why game consoles are so good for trivia games. Not only do they have the option to include a crapton of questions, potentially dynamically adjust categories and difficulty, but they also have hardware that removes this problem. AND they let everyone play, without needing some round robin "you read the question this turn" rule.

That said, I do not play trivia games.
This poll question is on the list of reasons why. I do not like timing/aggressiveness/loudness to be part of the mechanics. And I do not like one person having control over who gets to "move" based on these mechanics either.
 
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Wim van Gruisen
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I answered A.
However, it is really something that should be agreed upon between the players, with the group deciding what is acceptable and what isn't.

FWIW, I think that there are problems with the proposed method of timing. How do you decide who answered first, when both people shouted at the same time? Can the ruder person overshoot the timid one?

Say we have timid Alan and boisterous Brenda. The quizmaster asks them:
"Complete this: John, Paul, George and?"
Alan: "Ala.."
Brenda (interrupting): "BRENDA! RINGO!"

Having to make a decision on this situation is leaving at least one party dissatisfied. If Brenda gets the point, Alan will feel that it was stolen from him, since he reacted first. If the quizmaster however gives Alan the opportunity to finish his answer, Brenda will feel that he just repeats what she had just said - and that she gave the answer first.

People could give arguments who is in the right here, but that is not the point. The point is that the method of timing causes dissatisfaction in the group - where I assume that the intention of people playing games is to have fun.

Some game from a long time ago gave each player a card. When a person knew the answer, he or she would throw the card into a bowl. If more than one card would end up there, the person whose card was at the bottom of the bowl could give an answer first.
 
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Penguins Performance Project feat.
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mlanza wrote:
Shouting your name is kind of like hitting the buzzer on Family Feud. However, lacking a real buzzer, this rule seems kind awkward. Why not just shout out the answer?


To me it seems there are clear advantages to separating the question of who's going to answer from the actual giving of the answer. Otherwise you'll run into issues like one player clearly starting to speak first but another player providing the actual answer for them.

pmagnus wrote:
I answered the first option, but a trivia game like this needs an explicit rule about the point at which it’s OK to answer.


How might you phrase such a rule? Or do you mean like Wim that a fuzzy system like shouting (or buzzing without a regulating system) simply won't cut it?

Whymme wrote:
Say we have timid Alan and boisterous Brenda. The quizmaster asks them:
"Complete this: John, Paul, George and?"
Alan: "Ala.."
Brenda (interrupting): "BRENDA! RINGO!"


In this case Brenda clearly goofed. Alan gets to answer, using the information she provided.

Whymme wrote:
People could give arguments who is in the right here, but that is not the point.


Oh. Well, in the example as presented, Brenda clearly goofed though.

Whymme wrote:
Some game from a long time ago gave each player a card. When a person knew the answer, he or she would throw the card into a bowl. If more than one card would end up there, the person whose card was at the bottom of the bowl could give an answer first.


"The Card at the Bottom of the Bowl" is my favourite short story.

The results of the poll look very conclusive, far more than I had expected.
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Pete
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The answer to all the questions is "bacon." Whoever shouts it first wins.

Pete (actually answered A)
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Justin V

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Two teams is the only way to play trivia without a more elaborate buzzer system.

On Jeopardy! you are locked out of the buzzer until the question is finished. Further, if you try to ring in early, you get an additional lockout, so hammering the buzzer won't work either. On easier questions it is a buzzer game. All players know the answer, but the one that can game the lockout will get to answer.

On our local high school quiz bowl, you can ring in at any time, but the question stops when you ring in. This can become a game of guessing when you have enough information to guess the rest of the question. "In 1620," **buzz** "The Pilgrims". I can finish that question where that is right. Or maybe the answer is the Mayflower or any of several things. It becomes risk/reward.

So for casual trivia, just move to two teams, one team is asking while another is answering. Tally up points. If the goal is trivia, any other format introduces a game besides knowledge.

However to answer the poll, first to answer wins, assuming no other rules governing how to answer are in place.
 
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Mus Rattus
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Players should absolutely wait to be recognized by the moderate before giving their answer.

There is an ambiguity, I'm not sure what the situation is exactly?

Kaffedrake wrote:
"...As the moderator starts reading the preamble to the next question, player A guesses what the question is, shouts their name and gives the answer. After the moderator resumes reading the question..."


Were they reading the question or the preamble? What preamble would a trivia question have beyond something like "Question 10, Math"?

Signalling during a question is fine, signalling when no question has been asked could be treated as a wrong answer, or an accidental buzz, depending on how strict the rules are.



 
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Pete
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I remember clearly in Quiz Bowl way back in high school the following question:

What Korean W...

That's all the guy got out. I buzzed in for my team. "Douglas MacArthur"

Pete (got the point and his team won)
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Shane Hockin
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plezercruz wrote:
I remember clearly in Quiz Bowl way back in high school the following question:

What Korean W...

That's all the guy got out. I buzzed in for my team. "Douglas MacArthur"

Pete (got the point and his team won)


I had a Quiz Bowl moment something like that back in the day, too. The moderator read, "In the Old Testament..." and I accidentally buzzed. When they called my name, I said... "Uuhh... David?"

Them: "That is correct."

Me: "Of course!"

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Pete
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espoon82 wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
I remember clearly in Quiz Bowl way back in high school the following question:

What Korean W...

That's all the guy got out. I buzzed in for my team. "Douglas MacArthur"

Pete (got the point and his team won)


I had a Quiz Bowl moment something like that back in the day, too. The moderator read, "In the Old Testament..." and I accidentally buzzed. When they called my name, I said... "Uuhh... David?"

Them: "That is correct."

Me: "Of course!"

That's hilarious!

Pete (thinks you maximized your odds and it paid off)
 
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MusRattus wrote:
Players should absolutely wait to be recognized by the moderate before giving their answer.

There is an ambiguity, I'm not sure what the situation is exactly?

Kaffedrake wrote:
"...As the moderator starts reading the preamble to the next question, player A guesses what the question is, shouts their name and gives the answer. After the moderator resumes reading the question..."


Were they reading the question or the preamble? What preamble would a trivia question have beyond something like "Question 10, Math"?

Signalling during a question is fine, signalling when no question has been asked could be treated as a wrong answer, or an accidental buzz, depending on how strict the rules are.



Oh, yeah. This could affect my answer. If he buzzes (yells his name) was while the quizmaster was saying "Here is the next question..." I would say the "buzz in" is in error and the person should get to try again once the actual question starts.

If the person "buzzes in" during the actual question, such as "Where can you find..." I think the question should stop and they should have to answer, and that is their turn. The other players can then listen to the rest of the question and decide if they want to answer.
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Player A is being obnoxious. Forfeit.
 
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plezercruz wrote:
The answer to all the questions is "bacon." Whoever shouts it first wins.


Have you tried tossing crisp-fried strips of bacon into a bowl, and whoever has their bacon at the bottom gets to eat all of them?

MusRattus wrote:
Players should absolutely wait to be recognized by the moderate before giving their answer.


That's entirely reasonable, although in this case the rules also say you may not stop and think in between "buzzing" and giving the answer.

MusRattus wrote:
There is an ambiguity, I'm not sure what the situation is exactly?

Kaffedrake wrote:
"...As the moderator starts reading the preamble to the next question, player A guesses what the question is, shouts their name and gives the answer. After the moderator resumes reading the question..."


Were they reading the question or the preamble? What preamble would a trivia question have beyond something like "Question 10, Math"?


You can see a card from the game that may or may not have inspired the poll here, the relevant side being in the lower right:



As you can see there are non-bolded preambles giving context, and numbered and bolded questions. So the question is, when the rules say for the moderator to read the next question and for players to buzz with no explicit time frame, can you do it during the preamble, or is there a hard barrier when the moderator starts speaking in bold (or at some other point)?
 
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Mus Rattus
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Kaffedrake wrote:
As you can see there are non-bolded preambles giving context, and numbered and bolded questions. So the question is, when the rules say for the moderator to read the next question and for players to buzz with no explicit time frame, can you do it during the preamble, or is there a hard barrier when the moderator starts speaking in bold (or at some other point)?


I would say answers during the preamble should be ignored in a friendly setting, and treated as incorrect answers to the up-coming question in competitive settings or if the problem persists.

I'd go with a hard barrier at the bold, numbered texts, but that's just a guess as I can't read the content.
 
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Matthijs Schaap
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I voted A

as guessing the correct question is also a skill that can be rewarded... and then giving the correct answer is basically being doubly right. (even though you are being a smart ass)

Guessing the question can be interpreted as a different game one that is not played at that moment however.
 
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