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Terraforming Mars: Prelude» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Broken combos: Ecology Experts rss

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Jed Shambeda
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So in like the second game I played with Prelude I had Ecology Experts, the Viron corp, and birds. Two points from birds every generation. It didn't help that I also had Arctic algae before any oceans were out and Protected habitats in generation 2, plus some additional plant production. I ended up with 117 points in a four player game (23 from birds, another 30 or so from the board), 10 generations, and my closest rival was 12 points back after getting the most incredible card draws that I have ever seen - in any other situation he would have destroyed us.

I know that everything is situational and any card can be great in the right circumstances, but this combo basically gave me 20 points to start the game with no effort. I heard of my little brother doing the same thing a week later with Colonies when the animal colony was in play, so his victory was even worse.

Are there any other seriously overpowered (or just really cool) combos out there that people have found?
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ɹǝsɐɹɟ
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Back in the days when there were less maps we played every map back to back
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And here is an example of somebody getting 31 points via Ecology Experts, Birds and the right colony.



Narator: She lost.

If somebody else has those combos they are seriously overpowered, if you have the same combo they are merely cool cool
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Mak Vujanović
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But playing Birds with Ecology experts is really risky. You need to decrease someones plant production by 2 and that's only possible in a very few circumstances, for example if somebody is Ecoline.

You better have an alternate card to play if Birds become unplayable.

Of course, you can plan to have your own plant production reduced but that is really not ideal.
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Peter Bakija
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jsham wrote:
So in like the second game I played with Prelude I had Ecology Experts, the Viron corp, and birds.


Someone needs to be Ecoline already for that to work. Or you need to have Biosphere Support in play already. Can it happen? Sure. But it is not real likely.

You got super lucky and had a serious outlier game. It doesn't happen much.
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Rikard Johansson
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With a large enough sample size you can always find weird outliers. It doesn't mean they are typical at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
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Mak Vujanović
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On second thought, Penguins, Fish and Livestock all have the same action effect and point per animal, and they are guaranteed to enter play, so the odds are slightly higher for this type of combo to actually show up.
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Erich Hsu
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Anything with the red border is MAY not MUST. You don't have to remove plant production to play birds.
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Oerjan Ariander
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trooperyosh wrote:
Anything with the red border is MAY not MUST. You don't have to remove plant production to play birds.

Incorrect.

Resource reductions with red-bordered icons are optional.

Production reductions with red-bordered icons must be performed.

This is stated in section "Red border on icons" on p.15 in the core rulebook.

Regards,
Oerjan
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Florian Ruckeisen
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Papaver wrote:
On second thought, Penguins, Fish and Livestock all have the same action effect and point per animal

And yet, I still think that Kelp Farming is an even better combo card with Ecology Experts than any of those.

Quote:
and they are guaranteed to enter play

Only Penguins. Fish also needs to lower somebody's plant production by 1, and Livestock needs to lower your plant production by 1.
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Erich Hsu
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Hah.. what a strange distinction for like 10 cards.. I guess it's kind of thematic though. Thankfully most of my games we use those types of cards to slow people down so we haven't broken that rule much if at all
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Rikard Johansson
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trooperyosh wrote:
Hah.. what a strange distinction for like 10 cards.. I guess it's kind of thematic though. Thankfully most of my games we use those types of cards to slow people down so we haven't broken that rule much if at all


You have the rule and exception all wrong. There's a general rule in TM that you need to be able to perform all effects of a card/action in order to play/undertake it. This includes production reduction.

There are 3 allowed exceptions to this rule, of which one is that you you don't have to remove red bordered resources (such as plants).
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Erich Hsu
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It's pretty rare that you cant perform all the things on a card or want to play something even if you cant do the thing.

But it's the distinction of red-bordered production vs red-bordered resources that I'm talking about. Just seems bulky to have them both mean any but may do one and must do the other.

edit: Oh I suppose I should think of it as any resource icons are MAY do although that is not 100% correct
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Mak Vujanović
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Snapshot wrote:
Papaver wrote:
On second thought, Penguins, Fish and Livestock all have the same action effect and point per animal

And yet, I still think that Kelp Farming is an even better combo card with Ecology Experts than any of those.


I agree in general but I was talking about the original example with the Viron corporation.

Snapshot wrote:
Papaver wrote:
and they are guaranteed to enter play

Only Penguins. Fish also needs to lower somebody's plant production by 1, and Livestock needs to lower your plant production by 1.


They actually ARE guaranteed to enter play, because Ecology experts prelude gives you one plant production. I think it's there exactly because of those cards that require it.
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quaoar 10
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We were just crushed by the same animal strategy including Colonies' animal planet by 25 points. I also have the feeling this is not well balanced. I tend to take this card out.
 
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