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Subject: "Trump says meeting with Democrats 'waste of time'" rss

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Pontifex Maximus
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But let's hear it from the horse's...um...mouth



Backing up Senator Schumer's account of the meeting

Quote:
Schumer told reporters that Trump walked out after Pelosi declined his demand for wall funding. "Again, we saw a temper tantrum because he couldn't get his way," Schumer said.


https://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-meeting-democrats-total-wa...

Gentlepeople. One presents to you the leader of the GOP/Mainstream Conservatives. Donald J. Trump. Three year old.




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Daniel Kearns
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His handlers have since corrected the exchange to “will you support border security?” To which the dirty dems naturally said no...

He even brought candy FFS. The dems are heartless.

Quote:
McCarthy likewise pushed back on the Democratic description of the meeting, noting that Trump "even brought a little candy for everybody." The exact candy was not specified but according to a source familiar at least one Butterfingers was spotted as well as Baby Ruth bars and M&Ms.
The California Republican said Trump had gone back and forth with Pelosi and Schumer, and then eventually asked Pelosi, " 'OK, Nancy, if we open the government up in 30 days, could we have border security?' "
"She raised her hand and said, 'No, not at all,' " McCarthy recalled. "The President calmly said, 'I guess you're still not wanting to deal with the problem.' "

Oh and I guess republicans are aghast at how the democrats misrepresented the meeting even though the dem description of the meeting matches Trumps.
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Greg Michealson
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Doesn't sound like something a master negotiator or stable genius would do.
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Chief Slovenly
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I mean, why ever would Trump and power brokers in the GOP lie about anything or deal in bad faith to establish any fucking trust whatsoever, I ask you
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Chad Ellis
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This is consistent with his negotiating tactic. He's attempting to convey to them that the's 100% committed to "wall or nothing" so that they see their options as "wall or ongoing shutdown". It's a fairly common tactic, and it's Trump's go-to.

Unfortunately for Trump, he's got problems with it. Republican Senators are starting to peel off, the public blames him for the shutdown more than the do the Dems, and by framing it as "give in to me or else" he makes it almost impossible for the Dems to make concessions, both because they would enrage their base and because they know that if they cave now he'll do the same thing over and over again.

That's why this tactic is generally viewed as poor when the other party is someone you have to deal with again.
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Wim van Gruisen
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What I am wondering is why Mexico still hasn't paid for that wall. Building that wall shouldn't press on the budget, since Mexico would gladly pay the bill, isn't it? Or have I missed something?
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Jorge Montero
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We are back to who has the better BATNA, and Trump is not doing the best of jobs at convincing the world that the Democrats are unreasonable here. To have a prayer of selling that tale, he has to offer something of value in exchange for said wall, and get a rejection. The only thing he offers is keeping the government open, as if it's something he has no interest on himself.

Good luck with that.
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Walt
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I think you're all missing something very important: Why now and not anytime in 2017 or 2018, when both houses were R? Even Trump can figure this out, and he doesn't like failing.

Plausibly, because before it would have been a ho-hum pass (though it would never have been finished). Now, it produces maximum disruption. Who has an interest in disrupting the US government?
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Chief Slovenly
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hibikir wrote:
We are back to who has the better BATNA, and Trump is not doing the best of jobs at convincing the world that the Democrats are unreasonable here. To have a prayer of selling that tale, he has to offer something of value in exchange for said wall, and get a rejection. The only thing he offers is keeping the government open, as if it's something he has no interest on himself.

Good luck with that.


Offering something of value as a fair negotiation tactic? I'm sure the head of Trump University, or the fully-vetted Trump Foundation would do just fine in negotiations like these.
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Mike Parker
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Bad move tactically, he digs in too far and people will start blaming Senate Republicans. They didn’t promise a wall.

I’m guessing 2 more weeks before Senate passes the house measures veto-proof.
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Brian
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I think Senate Republicans would just have to tell him they are ready to cave, then he will cave so he can take credit for the whole thing. The Republicans won't have to seem obviously against him but can instead say how great and gentleman-y he is being.
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
This is consistent with his negotiating tactic. He's attempting to convey to them that the's 100% committed to "wall or nothing" so that they see their options as "wall or ongoing shutdown". It's a fairly common tactic, and it's Trump's go-to.

Unfortunately for Trump, he's got problems with it. Republican Senators are starting to peel off, the public blames him for the shutdown more than the do the Dems, and by framing it as "give in to me or else" he makes it almost impossible for the Dems to make concessions, both because they would enrage their base and because they know that if they cave now he'll do the same thing over and over again.

That's why this tactic is generally viewed as poor when the other party is someone you have to deal with again.


This. If you're Donald Trump, and you're building a hotel, there's always another guy looking to sell you the toilets, the beds, the everything. So Trump is used to abusing people to get short-term gains, and then never dealing with them again. It's his MO.

But that doesn't work in politics. It doesn't work in governing. And it doesn't work when you're not smart enough to know you're not the smartest person in the room by a long shot.
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Wendell
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If only Trump's administration had begun with two years of complete Republican control of the government, THEN they could have had that magnificent wall.
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Shawn Fox
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Elections have consequences, what do the Democrats get if they give Trump his money?

[edit] Hint: Providing funding for basic government functions is not a gift to Democrats, it is just basic governance.
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G Rowls
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Whymme wrote:
What I am wondering is why Mexico still hasn't paid for that wall. Building that wall shouldn't press on the budget, since Mexico would gladly pay the bill, isn't it? Or have I missed something?



they haven't liberated them yet.
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Josh
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
This is consistent with his negotiating tactic. He's attempting to convey to them that the's 100% committed to "wall or nothing" so that they see their options as "wall or ongoing shutdown". It's a fairly common tactic, and it's Trump's go-to.

Unfortunately for Trump, he's got problems with it. Republican Senators are starting to peel off, the public blames him for the shutdown more than the do the Dems, and by framing it as "give in to me or else" he makes it almost impossible for the Dems to make concessions, both because they would enrage their base and because they know that if they cave now he'll do the same thing over and over again.

That's why this tactic is generally viewed as poor when the other party is someone you have to deal with again.


Trump is used to negotiating purely from strength, or more succinctly, bullying.
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Matt Brown
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Shadrach wrote:
Trump is used to negotiating purely from strength, or more succinctly, bullying.


He can't simply sue people and win because he has more money.
 
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Bwian, just
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Fake Mike wrote:
Bad move tactically, he digs in too far and people will start blaming Senate Republicans. They didn’t promise a wall.

I’m guessing 2 more weeks before Senate passes the house measures veto-proof.

I didn't think it even passed the House veto-proof.
 
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Josh
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Bwian wrote:
Fake Mike wrote:
Bad move tactically, he digs in too far and people will start blaming Senate Republicans. They didn’t promise a wall.

I’m guessing 2 more weeks before Senate passes the house measures veto-proof.

I didn't think it even passed the House veto-proof.


Yeah, but that was then.
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Jeff Saxton
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garhkal wrote:
Well, if schumer and pelosi are saying "open it up now, and THEN we can talk about border security.


As far as I can tell, Pelosi and Schumer said no such thing.
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G Rowls
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garhkal wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:

Backing up Senator Schumer's account of the meeting



Well, if schumer and pelosi are saying "open it up now, and THEN we can talk about border security. AND Trump asks them if i DO open it up now, would You DO the wall in 30 days and THEY SAY NO. THAT certainly doesn't look to ME like they have any intention of honoring their "well get to it later"...
AND SINCE THEY've DONE that since Reagan's time, and that "Get to it later" still seems to keep moving further and further down the road, i for one am GLAD Trump is finally saying "NO i will not fall for your bull".

Quote:
They didn’t promise a wall.


Many did run on a wall iirc.



or they are merely being truthful - they can't commit to it let alone in 30 days you are phrasing it along the lines I bought you dinner you owe me sex.

Well he has a duty as the holder of the office to the people to get \keep the government working regardless of wether his personal wishes are met or not.

And the repubs that ran on a wall well that's their problem , they had two years of full control to keep their promise. Now it is only urgent to embrass the dems.
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garhkal wrote:


Well, if schumer and pelosi are saying "open it up now, and THEN we can talk about border security. AND Trump asks them if i DO open it up now, would You DO the wall in 30 days and THEY SAY NO. THAT certainly doesn't look to ME like they have any intention of honoring their "well get to it later"...



Yeah, well, if Schumer said "maybe we can negotiate to reopen the government" and Trump said "NO! I will not reopen anything until I have a $25b wall and also you turn yourselves over to Russia for criminal prosecution", then I think they would be very smart not to cave in to his demands.

Wait, why are inventing hypothetical scenarios again?
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Mac Mcleod
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It was much more important for republicans to push thru tax cuts for the wealthy than it was to build the wall.

It was much more important to screw DACA people over and deport them than it was to build the wall.

They had their chance and they made their choices. The wall was at least 3rd on the priority list-- probably lower than that.

There was a time a year ago, the democrats would have easily traded 5 billion for DACA concessions.

Now, it's just hostage taking and blackmail for the 5 billion. You can't give him the 5 billion because then in a month it will be 10 billion.
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David Dearlove
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garhkal wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:

Backing up Senator Schumer's account of the meeting



Well, if schumer and pelosi are saying "open it up now, and THEN we can talk about border security. AND Trump asks them if i DO open it up now, would You DO the wall in 30 days and THEY SAY NO. THAT certainly doesn't look to ME like they have any intention of honoring their "well get to it later"...
AND SINCE THEY've DONE that since Reagan's time, and that "Get to it later" still seems to keep moving further and further down the road, i for one am GLAD Trump is finally saying "NO i will not fall for your bull".

Quote:
They didn’t promise a wall.


Many did run on a wall iirc.


Source?
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J
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garhkal wrote:
Well, if schumer and pelosi are saying "open it up now, and THEN we can talk about border security. AND Trump asks them if i DO open it up now, would You DO the wall in 30 days and THEY SAY NO. THAT certainly doesn't look to ME like they have any intention of honoring their "well get to it later"...

You are conflating border security with The Wall. They aren’t the same. The Democrats have all along agreed to money for border security.
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