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Subject: Opening Envelope X (SPOILERS) rss

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Mad Mullet
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So.... our group has recently unlocked Envelope X....

Spoiler for Envelope X content:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
... So we have a goal of 'finding 10 clues' of which the first is a letter 'B'.


We have made no progress beyond this initial envelope-opening.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
So presumably there are more of these hieroglyphs somewhere in the game that we haven't accessed.


From the forum, I have gathered that there are issues with all that 'Envelope X' entails though I don't know, and don't wish to know, any specifics on this.

However, recalling one poster who recently said that the envelope basically 'killed his interest in the game', I wondered whether the whole 'envelope x' premise may be flawed or there may have been an unforeseen problem with it that negates its intention?

Ultimately, without wanting any spoilers, is there any advice that anyone who has completed all that 'Envelope X' involves can give me from the point that we are at that may help us get the most value out of it? Or avoid any frustrations that other people have reportedly had with it?
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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I was the second person to solve it, and honestly failed to see any problems with it, it is a great bonus content idea and when I solved it my jaw ultimately dropped to the floor, as the reward is pretty awesome in my personal opinion. I think most people just came in with a very different expectation regarding the reward in the end, and thus were pretty dissapointed by that, but I wouldn't worry about it. As said it is bonus content and not at all detriment to your campaign.

I wrote a guide to help people finding the clues, which can be found here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/28654183#28654183

The guide is multilayered spoilers within spoilers, so you can savely only reveal parts of it, depending on how much you are comfortable with, and use it as a guide to find the other 9 glyphs.
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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Are you sure you're not confusing things?

Perhaps you don't mean Envelope X but rather
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Envelope A


That one caused me to cringe terribly.
 
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Adrian Brooks
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Madmullet wrote:

Or avoid any frustrations that other people have reportedly had with it?

We're not finished. But it's clear that some of the clues are associated with unlockable content you might not find playing through the campaign once. That might be frustrating, particularly if you repeat to look for more clues and then find the result isn't worth it. On the other hand, it seems possible you can do some guessing around your missing bits even if you don't have everything.

/Edit Morthai seems to have spoiled that you're looking for Glyphs, which isn't necessarily obvious from the envelope itself. Though it would be terribly frustrating if you thought you were only looking for messages
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g colhoun
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We gave this search a real focus in our group last night. I think we made good progress but we were unsure as to how the outcome is going to be revealed/awarded etc.

Tbh it is icing on the icing on the icing of a brilliant game.

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Marcel Cwertetschka
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genoan wrote:
I think we made good progress but we were unsure as to how the outcome is going to be revealed/awarded etc.

I wrote you a pm.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Morthai wrote:
I was the second person to solve it, and honestly failed to see any problems with it


Come on, now. Wasn't one of the clues an actual typo? Like, even if you think the puzzle design was perfect (which is debatable), at the very least you can see that one big problem, right?
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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Dexter345 wrote:
Morthai wrote:
I was the second person to solve it, and honestly failed to see any problems with it


Come on, now. Wasn't one of the clues an actual typo? Like, even if you think the puzzle design was perfect (which is debatable), at the very least you can see that one big problem, right?


I only was able to solve it after the typo was corrected whistle - the typo was pointed out by the first person to solve it - and honestly everyone has a typo once in a while - it happens =( .
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michele c
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Morthai wrote:
I was the second person to solve it, and honestly failed to see any problems with it,


what is your opinion on the clues that
Spoiler (click to reveal)

are hidden on the website? I think they are really impossible to find by someone who didn't follow the Kick-starter campaign.

This is the weak part of the puzzle, in my opinion.
 
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Robert Marney
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Morthai wrote:
I wrote a guide to help people finding the clues, which can be found here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/28654183#28654183

The guide is multilayered spoilers within spoilers, so you can savely only reveal parts of it, depending on how much you are comfortable with, and use it as a guide to find the other 9 glyphs.


Just wanted to say how great this guide is. It's easy to find a hint for the exact part of the puzzle you're stuck on, without making the solution trivial for you. (For instance, I needed a hint for the final step, although I was fine at finding glyphs.)
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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mhl7 wrote:

what is your opinion on the clues that
Spoiler (click to reveal)

are hidden on the website? I think they are really impossible to find by someone who didn't follow the Kick-starter campaign.

This is the weak part of the puzzle, in my opinion.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
googleing it helped quite easy - you could look up specific phrases like:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
things related to the puzzles:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
decoder ring
spoilers
and also dust


The riddle was always meant as extra content and as a form of "thank you" to the kickstarter backers - as originally only them received the glyph sheets to translate the runes. Only in the second priting going forward (or online) you could find the glyphs for retail copies.
 
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Chris E
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mhl7 wrote:
Morthai wrote:
I was the second person to solve it, and honestly failed to see any problems with it,


what is your opinion on the clues that
Spoiler (click to reveal)

are hidden on the website? I think they are really impossible to find by someone who didn't follow the Kick-starter campaign.

This is the weak part of the puzzle, in my opinion.


This is the part that makes me angry. If you're going to have a puzzle as part of your game, everything to solve it should be in the box and correct when you open it.
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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madantichris wrote:


This is the part that makes me angry. If you're going to have a puzzle as part of your game, everything to solve it should be in the box and correct when you open it.

the first part I could agree upon, riddles could be contained to within the gamebox (Forgotten Circles will do that btw), but the second is a honest mistake with a wrong number - which couldn't even be caught by the editors as it is hard to note a wrong number. Gloomhaven has millions of words on all material total, so it is hard to notice such a miniscule error, especially as it was corrected quite early (here on bgg). Even games from bigger companies suffer typos and even worse oversights - it is not a digital game where you could patch in fixes - so it is bound to happen.

Also there are various games nowadays that work with reallife puzzles in their mechanics as well, in general there is nothing wrong with that and also lead to very interesting puzzlehunts.
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Chris E
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Morthai wrote:
madantichris wrote:


This is the part that makes me angry. If you're going to have a puzzle as part of your game, everything to solve it should be in the box and correct when you open it.

the first part I could agree upon, riddles could be contained to within the gamebox (Forgotten Circles will do that btw), but the second is a honest mistake with a wrong number - which couldn't even be caught by the editors as it is hard to note a wrong number. Gloomhaven has millions of words on all material total, so it is hard to notice such a miniscule error, especially as it was corrected quite early (here on bgg). Even games from bigger companies suffer typos and even worse oversights - it is not a digital game where you could patch in fixes - so it is bound to happen.

Also there are various games nowadays that work with reallife puzzles in their mechanics as well, in general there is nothing wrong with that and also lead to very interesting puzzlehunts.


I agree in principle on the honest mistake defense for 99% of the game content, but if you are having a special puzzle content, that really needs to be on point. I am willing to overlook much because I know how difficult it is proofing and bringing projects to print production, but something like that just has to be right or it fails.
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eldur
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I was avoiding posting anything regarding envelope X anywhere (as per Isaac's Request regarding Spoilers), but here goes...

Madmullet wrote:

So.... our group has recently unlocked Envelope X....

Congratulations! (Also, thanks for making a spoiler-free question.)

Madmullet wrote:
Ultimately, without wanting any spoilers, is there any advice that anyone who has completed all that 'Envelope X' involves can give me from the point that we are at that may help us get the most value out of it? Or avoid any frustrations that other people have reportedly had with it?

We unlocked Envelope X... and everything that entails. I was lucky to be the one who pushed it through. My whole group was super impressed. Stunned, even. We were not at all disappointed.
Recommendations for avoiding frustrations that people have:
1) Avoid expecting ANYTHING from it. You already have a wonderful game in Gloomhaven. A whopping 22 lb box! Keep playing it.
2) Take your time. Work on it when convenient. Enjoy the journey. See #1.
3) Use @Morthai's guide if you need to, see below.
4) PM someone if you get stuck.(*)
5) It's 100% ok to not solve this. See #1.

For convenience, I've quoted the @Morthai's response in THIS thread. His link goes to ANOTHER thread. While his multiply-nested set of hints is excellent, do NOT read any of the other responses in that thread which are major spoilers (assuming you don't want spoilers).
Morthai wrote:
I was the second person to solve it, and honestly failed to see any problems with it, it is a great bonus content idea and when I solved it my jaw ultimately dropped to the floor, as the reward is pretty awesome in my personal opinion. I think most people just came in with a very different expectation regarding the reward in the end, and thus were pretty dissapointed by that, but I wouldn't worry about it. As said it is bonus content and not at all detriment to your campaign.

I wrote a guide to help people finding the clues, which can be found here:
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/28654183#28654183

The guide is multilayered spoilers within spoilers, so you can savely only reveal parts of it, depending on how much you are comfortable with, and use it as a guide to find the other 9 glyphs.


(*) In this way, you can freely ask things without spoiler tags as well as avoid bumping the Envelope X threads.

Once again, congrats! I hope you enjoy the ride!
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Mad Mullet
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Morthai wrote:
I only was able to solve it after the typo was corrected whistle - the typo was pointed out by the first person to solve it - and honestly everyone has a typo once in a while - it happens =( .


This sounds pretty important. Will it be obvious that there is a typo when I come across it?

Or am I going to be banging my head against a brick wall trying to solve something that cannot be solved?

This sounds worth knowing and is sort of the point of my post. Is it possible to get a 'non-spoiler hint' of where this typo is so that I can correct it when I come across it?
 
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Chris E
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Madmullet wrote:
Morthai wrote:
I only was able to solve it after the typo was corrected whistle - the typo was pointed out by the first person to solve it - and honestly everyone has a typo once in a while - it happens =( .


This sounds pretty important. Will it be obvious that there is a typo when I come across it?

Or am I going to be banging my head against a brick wall trying to solve something that cannot be solved?

This sounds worth knowing and is sort of the point of my post. Is it possible to get a 'non-spoiler hint' of where this typo is so that I can correct it when I come across it?


I advise not bothering and just reading the spoilers. My group did this after hearing about the problems and external clues, and we were very glad we did not get invested in the puzzle.
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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Madmullet wrote:
Morthai wrote:
I only was able to solve it after the typo was corrected whistle - the typo was pointed out by the first person to solve it - and honestly everyone has a typo once in a while - it happens =( .


This sounds pretty important. Will it be obvious that there is a typo when I come across it?

Or am I going to be banging my head against a brick wall trying to solve something that cannot be solved?

This sounds worth knowing and is sort of the point of my post. Is it possible to get a 'non-spoiler hint' of where this typo is so that I can correct it when I come across it?


The typo is only in the first and second printing, if you have any newer printing version (3rd or 4th) then you are good. The typo should also be in the FAQ, see here:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
aflorin wrote:

There is also a typo on road event 36. The symbols in outcome A should read as follows (the change is underlined in red):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
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Mad Mullet
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Morthai wrote:
The typo is only in the first printing, if you have any newer printing version (2nd, 3rd or 4th) then you are good.


Okay. I have the second edition so no worries there.

Sounds like something not to get too focused on, at least until we've completed the main storyline of the campaign.

I'm guessing there are nine more hieroglyphs to find hidden somewhere in the game so will just keep an eye out and casually piece things together as we go through the campaign.

I'm not entirely sure on whether the issues people have had are because of the 'process' of solving the puzzle or the 'reward' at the end of it but I don't need to know now. I'll keep expectations low and see at the end whether I agree with those who thought it was great and those who thought it was rubbish.

Cheers for all non-spoiler responses.
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Adrian Brooks
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Morthai wrote:
only them received the glyph sheets to translate


A thing I find strange is that anyone, particularly Issac, thinks that the decoder sheet is in any way necessary. It isn't.
 
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Matthew McGeehin
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To be honest, I loved it. We only had one day to play the game, so we literally stayed up all night and had a 16-hour session. Our goal at the time was to retire and unlock as many classes as we could.

We opened Envelope X (doing the Research the Cure Personal Quest) near the end. It was 7:30 in the morning, we unlocked two other people at the same time (Triangles and Frilly Helmet, if you're curious).

EVERYTHING IN THE MARK IS SPOILERS, DON'T READ IF YOU WANT TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I solved the cipher in about 20 minutes, that wasn't hard. And to be honest, I got the first letter when I was packing up because I had the Ring of Skulls when I was packing the game up. I searched around to find the other ones, and went into a mad translating pitch.

I actually missed one letter. We had not unlocked the Saw class at the time, so I didn't see the letter there. However, I found the other letters, including the errata typo. That was disappointing, but sometimes, there are mistakes.

Fortunately for me, I had 9 letters of a ten letter word, and there were only two vowels. So I was pretty sure the last letter would be a vowel.

After that, I worked with the weirdest letter (W) to see what words I could make. A few hours later, I got my answer.


I had a lot of fun with it. There was an aspect I didn't like:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Needing to have other unlockables first, like the Saw class. In my opinion, I should be able to solve a puzzle when I get it, unless I am also given instructions to solve it later.
But that was minor and I'm really happy with the result I got.
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Darren Nakamura
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Matt620 wrote:
I had a lot of fun with it. There was an aspect I didn't like:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Needing to have other unlockables first, like the Saw class. In my opinion, I should be able to solve a puzzle when I get it, unless I am also given instructions to solve it later.
But that was minor and I'm really happy with the result I got.


I agree with this gripe, but I'm confused that you liked it given that gripe (pretty major spoilers for Envelope X)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Almost the entire puzzle is stuff you have to unlock. When we first unlocked Envelope X, we had the first letter and the one on the map. We also had the ones on the monster and the item (but didn't know it). We didn't have the one on the locked class, nor the three (or more?) that come from playing later scenarios. At the absolute best, we could have gotten four of the ten letters when we unlocked Envelope X, nowhere near everything to solve it.

Heck, I still haven't played one of the scenarios, still haven't seen the necessary road event, and I still don't know where another one or two clues come from after that.
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Matthew McGeehin
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That could be because of the way we played it.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We'd already unlocked the ones from completing scenarios.


Yes, there were improvements that need to be made with these Personal Quests. But such things might not be balanced. Ups and downs, but mostly ups.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I was more upset with the PnP aspect of it than anything else. But that is a generic gripe about PnP
 
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Edward Hananto
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Matt620 wrote:
To be honest, I loved it. We only had one day to play the game, so we literally stayed up all night and had a 16-hour session. Our goal at the time was to retire and unlock as many classes as we could.

We opened Envelope X (doing the Research the Cure Personal Quest) near the end. It was 7:30 in the morning, we unlocked two other people at the same time (Triangles and Frilly Helmet, if you're curious).

EVERYTHING IN THE MARK IS SPOILERS, DON'T READ IF YOU WANT TO DO IT ON YOUR OWN.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
I solved the cipher in about 20 minutes, that wasn't hard. And to be honest, I got the first letter when I was packing up because I had the Ring of Skulls when I was packing the game up. I searched around to find the other ones, and went into a mad translating pitch.

I actually missed one letter. We had not unlocked the Saw class at the time, so I didn't see the letter there. However, I found the other letters, including the errata typo. That was disappointing, but sometimes, there are mistakes.

Fortunately for me, I had 9 letters of a ten letter word, and there were only two vowels. So I was pretty sure the last letter would be a vowel.

After that, I worked with the weirdest letter (W) to see what words I could make. A few hours later, I got my answer.


I had a lot of fun with it. There was an aspect I didn't like:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Needing to have other unlockables first, like the Saw class. In my opinion, I should be able to solve a puzzle when I get it, unless I am also given instructions to solve it later.
But that was minor and I'm really happy with the result I got.


wow this is all very impressive. No way I could solved it this way on my own let alone in such a fast time.
 
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Darryl
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Dexter345 wrote:
Matt620 wrote:
I had a lot of fun with it. There was an aspect I didn't like:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Needing to have other unlockables first, like the Saw class. In my opinion, I should be able to solve a puzzle when I get it, unless I am also given instructions to solve it later.
But that was minor and I'm really happy with the result I got.


I agree with this gripe, but I'm confused that you liked it given that gripe (pretty major spoilers for Envelope X)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Almost the entire puzzle is stuff you have to unlock. When we first unlocked Envelope X, we had the first letter and the one on the map. We also had the ones on the monster and the item (but didn't know it). We didn't have the one on the locked class, nor the three (or more?) that come from playing later scenarios. At the absolute best, we could have gotten four of the ten letters when we unlocked Envelope X, nowhere near everything to solve it.

Heck, I still haven't played one of the scenarios, still haven't seen the necessary road event, and I still don't know where another one or two clues come from after that.


I had a question here as hopefully I have not misinterpreted something. I understood that my character would not retire until this mystery was solved and as we are maybe 15% of the way in I didn’t want to wait so I bypassed it to the end. (I’m the first retirement at this point.)

Was I correct in my interpretation?
 
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