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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » General

Subject: Running Original Dunwich with the Updated Encounter Sets rss

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Matt Davis
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I asked this on the FaceBook group but I don't think I fully explained what I was asking, because the responses I received did not really answer the question I asked. So here goes with try number two.

I am planning on running through Dunwich Legacy for the first time. I am in the process of getting the 'Return To' box. I was considering using the new replacement encounter sets (I can't remember them all off hand, but like the replacement set for Ancient Evils instead of Ancient Evils). Has anyone else considered doing this? If so, why or why not?

Most of the responses I got was "how can you return to someplace you have never been...", but that didn't really answer what I was asking. I am not skipping right to all the Return to changes (Scenario, Act, Agenda), just deciding if I should use the new encounter sets.
 
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Crazed Survivor
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I wouldn't because the return to cards are there to make the game more difficult, and to add more diversity and twists for the players who have already played their share of the original scenario.
I'd experience the scenario as released before swapping the old encounter cards with the new.

With that said nothing prevents you from playing return to from the get-go. You just won't be able to fully enjoy what it brings in regards to what the normal campaign was like.
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Dean Harris
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I would suggest running the regular version before the return to version.

The return to version is harder, and has some twists along the way that the original shouldn't have.

It's like watching Empire Strikes Back before A New Hope.
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Jamie
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I'd recommend just playing through original Dunwich without anything from Return. For a second play-through, I would add in Return. I think it's best to keep them separate.
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Tom Eklund
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We beat the campaign on our third try, it's not easy. I would recommend the Return to box only if you want to increase challenge.
 
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Daniel Rohlin
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volturnus wrote:
I asked this on the FaceBook group but I don't think I fully explained what I was asking, because the responses I received did not really answer the question I asked. So here goes with try number two.

I am planning on running through Dunwich Legacy for the first time. I am in the process of getting the 'Return To' box. I was considering using the new replacement encounter sets (I can't remember them all off hand, but like the replacement set for Ancient Evils instead of Ancient Evils). Has anyone else considered doing this? If so, why or why not?

Most of the responses I got was "how can you return to someplace you have never been...", but that didn't really answer what I was asking. I am not skipping right to all the Return to changes (Scenario, Act, Agenda), just deciding if I should use the new encounter sets.


Just of curiosity: why do you want to do this?
 
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Matt Davis
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Partly because from what I understand, some of the encounter set changes were made to address issues in the original set.

For example, with Ancient Evils and the Essex County Express, a couple of unlucky encounter draws could have you ending the scenario at the very beginning.

Having not played through the original, I don't know if there were other issues that will be resolved with the new encounter sets.

This could also just be my misunderstanding of what all the Return to set is trying to accomplish. I had assumed that the real change in difficulty was from scenario, act and agenda changes. If that is not correct, then my question is moot.
 
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Andreas Bühler
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Okay. In that case, I would do two things to adress the two worst problems:

a) In Essex County Express, replace Ancient Evils. That one can indeed end the scenario turn one, though you have to pretty much play with four investigators and everyone has to draw it.

b) In Where Doom Awaits, use the replacement locations.

That might make those scenarios a bit easier, though.
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Crazed Survivor
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volturnus wrote:
Partly because from what I understand, some of the encounter set changes were made to address issues in the original set.

For example, with Ancient Evils and the Essex County Express, a couple of unlucky encounter draws could have you ending the scenario at the very beginning.


Never happened to me though I played Dunwich 5 times at least.
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Branko K.
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Razoupaf wrote:
volturnus wrote:
Partly because from what I understand, some of the encounter set changes were made to address issues in the original set.

For example, with Ancient Evils and the Essex County Express, a couple of unlucky encounter draws could have you ending the scenario at the very beginning.


Never happened to me though I played Dunwich 5 times at least.


With 4 players?
 
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Brandon Eckhoff
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Return sets are not there to “fix things.” They are there to increase the challenge and make a campaign feel fresh again. (In short an easy way to milk money from an old campaign, though I’m not complaining.)

So yeah, there is no point to switch things out. Just play one or the other as intended. That’s my suggestion.
 
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Andreas Bühler
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They absolutely fix things too. The changes to Where Doom Awaits and ECE fix problems the community has discussed 100s of times.
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Bruce Danner
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Yes, I was the one who said that you can't return to someplace you've never been! Very deep... But in all seriousness, to advance ahead of the original encounter sets is to deprive yourself of the varied challenges that both versions will give you. The real challenge of the original version is that you don't know all of the locations, opponents, or narrative, and therefore won't make optimal actions at first. After a few campaigns, you will have seen all the variety that the scenarios have, and will default to action efficiency and safe strategies. The new version will refresh the challenge and force you to rethink strategy and action selection, and perhaps different victory goals.

While the game is excellent, the Return series addresses one of its weaknesses, which is that the challenges will always get easier the more you play. I think that you would be cheating yourself of the full potential that the game can offer you if you sidestep the original encounter sets.
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Ken Marley
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We have played Essex with two investigators probably 6 times and never lost. If you are playing with less then 4 investigators, I wouldn’t bother even changing Ancient Evils.
 
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Andreas Bühler
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Absolutely. We played it with four too, and we totally crushed that scenario, by drawing no doom early on. But it could happen, so replacing Ancient Evils, well, you don't really lose anything.

People say that you lose some variety by replacing those encounter sets. But honestly, how varied, exactly, is Ancient Evils? It's a very dull encounter card. Take one doom, done. The replacement can still place a doom. Most of the time, it probably will. But it gives you a choice in those moments where you absolutely can't have doom, which makes the game more interesting.

And the locations in Where Doom Awaits, well, those were just not written with solo play in mind.

By making just two replacements, you prevent two possible, but unlikely occurences where a scenario can become practically unsolveable in a way that feels unfair. You lose almost nothing in variety.

I'll refine my statement a bit:
If you have 1-2 investigators, on your first play, replace the two locations in Where Doom Awaits, nothing else.
If you have 3-4 investigators, replace Ancient Evils in the Essex County Express, nothing else.

There. This costs you nothing in variety and removes a small chance of an unsolveable scenario.
 
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Crazed Survivor
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If you're really scared of Ancient Evils, 4 classes can deal with that.
The Guardians can play On the Hunt to draw an enemy instead.
The Seekers, Mystics and Survivors can all cancel the When Revealed effect of the card.
 
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Andreas Bühler
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Sure. But we're talking of first-time players here, who don't have much experience with the game and don't know anything about the scenario. They might not realize that that's what they need to do turn one or they might die. Mitigating that is not a bad thing.
 
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Branko K.
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Eldan985 wrote:
Sure. But we're talking of first-time players here, who don't have much experience with the game and don't know anything about the scenario. They might not realize that that's what they need to do turn one or they might die. Mitigating that is not a bad thing.


I honestly see absolutely no reason to fiddle with the scenarios before even playing them once.

They were not broken, they were not imbalanced, they merely had slight imperfections. And sometimes, if the encounter deck got stacked in a very weird way, games could be punishingly unfair .... which, to be honest, can pretty much happen in any scenario due to the nature of the game. It's just that in some scenarios this can be slightly more jarring, Essex being one of them - and only with 4 players, and only very rarely.

In short, don't fix what ain't broken. I don't think putting "new" Ancient Evils instead of old would ultimately have any kind of positive/negative impact, but I just don't agree with this way of thinking. If the scenarios had serious flaws which severely jeopardized the game experience and were in desperate need of fixing, sure, fix away. But Dunwich was - and is - perfectly fine, especially if this is the first time you are playing it. If you are scared of unfair punishment on your first blind playthrough, then this is a very bad choice for a game to be playing in general, and "Return to.." decks will definitely not help you.
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Matt Davis
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Thanks for all the responses, definitely gave me observations that I was lacking. I will go through Dunwich as originally published at least the first time through.
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Nigel McNaughton
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I haven't had a chance to play Return to Dunwich yet, but I wouldn't want to half switch things around, just in case there were cards expecting other cards to exist. Like the new encounter cards relied on something from the new Agenda cards.
 
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