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Subject: Bankruptcy and track on board rss

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Brad Miller
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So we were playing the England map last night, and a player went bankrupt. He had built one pice of track west out of North-West, and two pieces from whatever the town is in the upper left corner. This left the town that is bewtween these two as the only unclaimed bit along this route. Now a player asked, (after the ownership markers had been removed):

"If I urbanize that town, what will happen to the track pieces. Will I get them?"

We ruled that no, once the New City was dropped in there, both of those were now completed track lines, and since he hadn't added to them, they were not his. Clearly if he had built track through the town, he would have gotten them both, but this wasn't the issue. And interestingly, this was HIS interpretation, so none of us had to feel like we were screwing him out of the tracks!
 
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
Windopaene (#37510),

I would probably say that the player that urbanizes a town in this situation would be allowed to claim the track. My rationale for this is that the rulebook says that unowned track (whether through bankruptcy or neglect) becomes the property of the first person who adds to it.

Furthermore, if I'm building my own track line towards a town, and I urbanize it rather than building track into the town, then my track segment becomes a completed link. This is also true if an opponent urbanizes a town that I was building towards.

Having unowned sections of track could prove problematic when shipping. Does no one get income? Does the shipping player get the income? Or can no shipping be done at all over that track?

Tim
 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
Captain_Physics (#37521),

"My rationale for this is that the rulebook says that unowned track (whether through bankruptcy or neglect) becomes the property of the first person who adds to it."

True, but in this case, the player WASN'T adding to the track, just urbanizing the town. His interpretation was that the moment the New City got placed, those were no longer "unclaimed, uncompleted track segments", but now were completed and unclaimable non-owned track.

I think I saw a post here or somewhere that claimed that the income for those links simply goes to no one, but the tracks were still usable. I can't find that post, but it may be buried on a geek list somewhere.
 
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Anthony Simons
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
Windopaene (#37531),

I would say yes, the player urbanising gets the unowned link. the following reasons back this up:

1. The same player urbanising another town would not be required to connect right into the town, and hence doesn't pay for the extra town track anyway.

2. Urbanisation is costing the player his action, yet without the benefit of not having to lay track into a town this action becomes less useful. The urbanisation action would become a means of getting more destinations on the board and nothing more; hence the benefit to all players is nearer equal regardless of who plays the action.

3. In all fairness, the opportunity is there for all players to take this action; if everybody else misses it then it is up to the player with first build (or at least building before the player in question) to take that link away from him (at the small cost of $3, I believe). If this doesn't happen then the player in question ought to be entitled to take the link by virtue of his urbanisation.


Actions are valuable; if you deny the urbanising player this privilege then you should not allow any other player to take the entire link by just paying for the small connection into town.

Furthermore, if as a result of an urbanisation decision another player finds himself capable of shipping an extra good successfully or laying an extra link from the city while still observing the 3 tile limit; surely those subsequent actions are as questionable (given that the city was a town before a player urbanised it)?

If you feel the link should stll be unowned then that is your decision of course, and as long as all players are clear on thie at the start of the game it is as acceptable a ruling as any.
 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
fellonmyhead (#38209),

I tend to agree with you, and I was willing to give it to the Urbanizing player. He felt that it wouldn't go to him! I could see arguments either way. We rarely have had bankruptcies, so it was a bit of unfamiliar territory for us.
 
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John Bohrer
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
Windopaene (#38217),

I tend to agree with you, and I was willing to give it to the Urbanizing player. He felt that it wouldn't go to him! I could see arguments either way. We rarely have had bankruptcies, so it was a bit of unfamiliar territory for us.

When a player goes bankrupt, remove all their track ownership tokens. This includes both Completed Railway Links and Unfinished Track Sections. When a Good traverses an unowned Completed Railway Link, no one is paid. If a player extends an unowned Unfinished Track Section, they may place their Ownership marker on the Unfinished Track Sections. If a player places track that makes a Completed Railway Link from one of the unowned Unfinished Track Sections, they place their Ownership marker on the Completed Railway Link. No one can own a Completed Railway Link previously owned by a now bankrupt player.

Clear enough, gentlemen?

John Bohrer
Winsome Games
http://www.fyi.net/~winsome
winsome@fyi.net
 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
John Bohrer (#38510),

Clear enough, gentlemen?

Only if a new city tile is considered track. Otherwise, it's still just as unclear...
 
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Dave Eisen
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
Windopaene (#38572),

A new city is not track. If the bankrupted player's track ran from an existing city and then connected to the town being urbanized, it cannot be claimed by another player. Period. End of story.
 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
dkeisen (#38576),

Yes but it didn't! It ran next to the town hex, (actually he had bits on two sides of the town hex). So when the town is urbanized, what happens to the two bits of unowned track?
 
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Dave Eisen
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
Windopaene (#38595),

I'm sorry. I misunderstood and probably should keep my mouth shut before I get in any deeper, but it is clear to me that the track remains unowned by anyone. Urbanizing a town is *not* extending track and thus the rules for extendering track do not apply to it.
 
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Mark Biggar
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
dkeisen (#38597),

Except Martin ruled otehrwise. Urbanization does allow
you to claim incompleted links that attach to the new city.
 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
mark_biggar (#38600),

Except Martin ruled otehrwise. Urbanization does allow
you to claim incompleted links that attach to the new city.

Now that's the kind of confirmation I like! Where did you see that?
 
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Mark Biggar
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
Windopaene (#38622),

It may be in the FAQ on the Warfrog web site, but I'm sure it was in a speilfreaks message right after the game first came out.
 
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Karl Rainer
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
mark_biggar (#38683),

Martin's ruling stated incomplete track. Urbanizing a town with completed links is not the same as urbanizing a town that has an incomplete track running up to the town hex but not yet linked to it.

Thus, urbanizing a town which alread has unowned, completed links, does not result in anyone getting ownership of those tracks. The only links up for grabs after a player is bankrupted are his incompleted links.
 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
krainer (#67160),

BUT

In this case, it was the town tile/piece of track with a gray marker on it that was missing. SO these were in fact incomplete links, which were only made complete by placing the New City tile on the empty town hex.
 
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Karl Rainer
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
Windopaene (#67217),

Correct, these would become the property of the urbanizing player.
 
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John Bohrer
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
krainer (#67239),
Correct, these would become the property of the urbanizing player.

Quite right.

John Bohrer
Winsome Games
 
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Leif Norcott
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Re:Bankruptcy and track on board
another way to think about it is the rules state that track comes out of all directions in a city. Thus you are adding track when urbanizing!
 
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