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On-Line Want-List Generator (OLWLG), for Math Trades» Forums » General

Subject: Internationalization of the OLWLG - take 2 rss

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Jeff Michaud
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For information on the 1st take click here.

The OLWLG now supports setting in your profile your language to:

Bulgarian, Chinese (simplified), Danish, Dutch, English (US), Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hebrew, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Latvian, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian, Russian, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish

Other than English these were google translated (from the English). We have some volunteers to go through the translations and "correct" and complete what google didn't translate (properly). Eventually if you don't set a language the OLWLG will try to use one based on the language(s) your browser sent.

If you would like to volunteer to either work on one of these existing translations, one that's not listed, or a regional version (including non-US English) please reply to this thread. If you would like to help where there is already a volunteer contact that person:

Hungarian - Adam Kleizer (QuippeR) - completed/installed Jan 24, 2019
Italian - Paolo Desalvo (BlackSheeper) - completed/installed Jan 31, 2019
German - Kathrin (Zauberschwein)
Spanish - Luis Olcese (lolcese) - completed/installed Feb 5, 2019
French - Frederic Beaulieu (kram3r)

The following was the original content of this base post:
********************************************
One of the stumbling blocks the 1st time around was that gettext ended up requiring that on linux that the language locales had to be installed. I had back w/take 1 those 6 years ago asked our web host if he could install them but must have fallen trough the cracks and I didn't want to push given he was hosting us for no cost. With his original server sitting in a rack in the basement of a business in downtown Boston losing it's space in that rack (well co-location space) and our host nice to move us w/his site(s) to the cloud in a virtual machine (VM). As such it was safe for him to give me root (system admin) access and on the new site I installed a bunch of locales/languages.

Also in the last 6 years the OLWLG continued to collect data on users preferred language (as set-in and sent by their browser).... ignoring region now that I see there are only 34 (only 20 ignoring those with less than 10 users. They are:

13663 en - English
729 it - Italian
470 de - German
410 nl - Dutch
408 fr - French
331 pt - Portuguese
166 el - Greek
115 hu - Hungarian
115 es - Spanish
77 sv - Swedish
73 pl - Polish
67 fi - Finnish
67 da - Danish
50 nb - Norwegian Bokmål
48 he - Hebrew
18 ro - Romanian
15 ru - Russian
14 lv - Latvian
12 bg - Bulgarian
10 sl - Slovenian
9 zh - Chinese
6 ja - Japanese
4 cs - Czech
3 lt - Lithuanian
3 ko - Korean
2 tr - Turkish
2 no - Norwegian
2 nn - Norwegian Nynorsk
2 eo - Esperanto
2 ca - Catalan
1 zu - Zulu
1 th - Thai
1 ksh - ? should only be 2 letters
1 is - Icelandic


The breakdown by sub-language (grouped by primary) can be found here

I'm currently working on using I used google translate to do a 1st pass translation into the top non-English languages.
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Paolo Desalvo
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It is quite surprising discover that in the last 6 years there have been about twice Italian users than Germans.
JeffyJeff wrote:
[...]
Also in the last 6 years the OLWLG continued to collect data on users preferred language (as set-in and sent by their browser).... ignoring region now that I see there are only 34 (only 20 ignoring those with less than 10 users. They are:

13663 en - English
729 it - Italian
470 de - German
410 nl - Dutch
408 fr - French
331 pt - Portuguese
[...]

[...]
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Adam Kleizer
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Maybe German users have set their machines to English more often than Italians?

@Jeff: if you need any help translating to Hungarian (google translate is unfortunately not that great for Finno-Ugric languages), I'm happy to help.
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Paolo Desalvo
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QuippeR wrote:
Maybe German users have set their machines to English more often than Italians?
[...]
Amusing point, but if you had a look at the users taking parts to the Italian and German math trade, you would have noted that the german math trades have less users of the Italian and that there are more Italians taking part to the German math trade than German taking part to the Italian ones.

Just the 2 cents of the Italian math trades organizer.
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Jeff Michaud
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ok, I've added support for the top 8 non-English languages

it_IT - Italian
de_DE - German
nl_NL - Dutch
fr_FR - French
pt_PT - Portuguese
el_GR - Greek
hu_HU - Hungarian
es_ES - Spanish

it won't use your browser sent language list (yet, it was but I disabled it)... instead you have to choose the language in your OLWLG profile....

https://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/profile.cgi

now the _XX after each 2 letter language code isn't important now but is supposed to be the region code... for most it's simply the language code repeated (actually it's a country code). However when I turn back on using the language list the browser sent I did check and looks like most are set to send 1st choice w/the region/country code... but 2nd choice is just the 2 letter language code...

... I have figured out (thank you strace!) I can edit locale.alias (nice to have that root access!) and make for example "pt" be an alias for "pt_PT".

Before we get to asking for volunteers who want to do other region/country versions of the ones I've done I'll 1st ask for volunteers who to clean up the raw google translate versions of the language/country ones listed above... please post here to prevent duplicate effort for same language... they are all

bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/LANG/OLWLG-xx.po.txt

where xx is the 2 digit lower case language code. These are in utf8 encoding. They can be edited with any editor that supports utf8 or can use an app like https://poedit.net/ (for windows, mac and linux)

 
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Paolo Desalvo
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JeffyJeff wrote:
ok, I've added support for the top 8 non-English languages

it_IT - Italian
[...]

[...] I'll 1st ask for volunteers who to clean up the raw google translate versions of the language/country ones listed above... please post here to prevent duplicate effort for same language... they are all
[...]
Ok, I will report it to the boys on the thread Voci sui Math Trade Italiani, where we were organizing to do the translation. For sure we'll need the original for confrontation.
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Adam Kleizer
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That's a lot of text. I'll go through the Hungarian one and report back once I'm done.
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Jeff Michaud
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Well I went and translated and added the next top 13 languages from the list....
JeffyJeff wrote:
77 sv - Swedish
73 pl - Polish
67 fi - Finnish
67 da - Danish
50 nb - Norwegian Bokmål
48 he - Hebrew
18 ro - Romanian
15 ru - Russian
14 lv - Latvian
12 bg - Bulgarian
10 sl - Slovenian
9 zh - Chinese
6 ja - Japanese
Note though that the striked out ones and German (never mind German works... was fooled by chrome auto-translating back to English) and Portuguese do not seem to be working (Portuguese fixed... syntax errors failed to complete compiled version). I have to dig deeper as they were created and installed into the system the same way. Could be maybe no utf8 support for them?
update: I've got all but Japanese working (fwiw I had to add alias to map them to have .utf8 suffix)
update2: got Japanese working... problem was existing locale alias for ja_JP ... with char-set suffix not installed

Any case I put them into the same location as the others and I just turned on that directory to support an index of that directory so...

https://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/LANG/

you can see them all there and download from there. So any volunteers for those as well? I also copied the master po file and named it OLWLG-English.po.txt if any Brits, Aussies, etc want to make regional English versions... those should be easier to do... you leave blank the msgstr for all except the ones you want a different string/message displayed

ps: if using vi(m) until yesterday I didn't know you could do

:set encoding=utf8

to edit a text file with utf8 encoded characters in it! Also interesting was when I was editing the Hebrew one it was interesting since language is written right-to-left vi when you went right actually went left and vice versa. i(nsert) also was interesting as it looked like it was doing an a(ppend) and vice versa.

Trying out the OLWLG in Chinese and Russian was also interesting!
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Lucas Smith
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BlackSheeper wrote:
It is quite surprising discover that in the last 6 years there have been about twice Italian users than Germans.
JeffyJeff wrote:
[...]
Also in the last 6 years the OLWLG continued to collect data on users preferred language (as set-in and sent by their browser).... ignoring region now that I see there are only 34 (only 20 ignoring those with less than 10 users. They are:

13663 en - English
729 it - Italian
470 de - German
410 nl - Dutch
408 fr - French
331 pt - Portuguese
[...]

[...]
That surprised me as well.
The German MT still allows manual submission of the want lists without using the OLWLG (this process must be horrible) - I don't know how many users participate without using the OLWLG but that might be a reason...
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Jeff Michaud
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I'm not hearing any feedback at all on how well or bad google translate did... either no one is using the new support or those that are haven't seen any glaring problems yet?

In any case just wanted to let folks know I also added a setlocale(LC_TIME, $lang) to the code... now all the timestamps months and/or days of the week names should be in that language as well
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Ben P.
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smithlucas wrote:
BlackSheeper wrote:
It is quite surprising discover that in the last 6 years there have been about twice Italian users than Germans.
That surprised me as well.
The German MT still allows manual submission of the want lists without using the OLWLG (this process must be horrible) - I don't know how many users participate without using the OLWLG but that might be a reason...
Not many - these days it's down to 1-3 per trade.
I'm inclined to agree with Adam here: If something is English, most Germans I know simply don't bother changing it to German. I've never used a German version of a browser myself and except for my parents, I don't think I know anyone who does :)
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Paolo Desalvo
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JeffyJeff wrote:
I'm not hearing any feedback at all on how well or bad google translate did... either no one is using the new support or those that are haven't seen any glaring problems yet?
We are busy discussing the corrections for the Italian localization in the Italianizzazione pagine OLWLG per math trade and I can tell you that someone noted that Google translated even the variable, and this thing that can cause some problems.

JeffyJeff wrote:
In any case just wanted to let folks know I also added a setlocale(LC_TIME, $lang) to the code... now all the timestamps months and/or days of the week names should be in that language as well
Thanks, we'll see how it works at our next math trade.
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Marco Donghi
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Hello Jeff,
I'm helping Paolo for the Italian translation. As he anticipated, we have noticed Google translated even variable names present in the text strings, like this one:

Quote:
#: addmt-request.cgi:526
msgid "missing Deadline-Offers in %options%/%end% block"
msgstr "Scadenza mancante: offerte in% opzioni% /% fine% blocco"

It's pretty crear that %options%/%end% needs to stay as it is, you can't the variable name. On the other hand I'm not really clear on "Deadline-Offers" as it's a strange turn of phrase, but I've never seen a MT on the admin's side so maybe that needs to be translated?
I guess this extra translation happenend on other languages as well so if I may, I'd suggest you go through other languages and make sure at least the variables are in the right places.
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Jeff Michaud
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Vittek wrote:
Hello Jeff,
I'm helping Paolo for the Italian translation. As he anticipated, we have noticed Google translated even variable names present in the text strings, like this one:

Quote:
#: addmt-request.cgi:526
msgid "missing Deadline-Offers in %options%/%end% block"
msgstr "Scadenza mancante: offerte in% opzioni% /% fine% blocco"

It's pretty crear that %options%/%end% needs to stay as it is, you can't the variable name. On the other hand I'm not really clear on "Deadline-Offers" as it's a strange turn of phrase, but I've never seen a MT on the admin's side so maybe that needs to be translated?
I guess this extra translation happened on other languages as well so if I may, I'd suggest you go through other languages and make sure at least the variables are in the right places.
you are correct on both... I should have never had put either %options%/%end% nor the tag names that go inside into the strings.

Actually checking the sources it looks like my script that makes the message catalog template picks up the "to be internationalized" strings from commented out code as well! So that string is a false alarm and sorry about that. It looks like I changed the code so that the relevant string is now.

msgid "missing deadline for offers"

etc

I'll go and remove that msgid from all the PO's to avoid others the same confusion, thanks again for the catch!
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Jeff Michaud
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Vittek wrote:
#: addmt-request.cgi:526
msgid "missing Deadline-Offers in %options%/%end% block"
msgstr "Scadenza mancante: offerte in% opzioni% /% fine% blocco"
checking the message strings you can also ignore

#: addmt-request.cgi:537
msgid "missing Deadline-Wants in %options%/%end% block"

#: addmt-request.cgi:544
msgid "missing %options%/%end% block"

those appear to be the only other ones that mention %options% of deadline-xxx ... the latters one ("missing %options%/%end% block") was actually in use in the code so I'll move the %options%/%end% out of the string... what is best way... would it be to make the new string

"missing block" and then I'll following that internationalized string with a non-internationalized "%options%/%end%" or should I have an it as:

INTL("missing") "%options%/%end%" INTL("block")

I'm thinking the former vs latter would be best?
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Marco Donghi
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Jeff I hope you're not making changes to the IT file. I made a copy on January 18 and we're working on that one.
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Jeff Michaud
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Vittek wrote:
Jeff I hope you're not making changes to the IT file. I made a copy on January 18 and we're working on that one.
Yes, to all of them actually... but the only change I made was to remove the msgid

"missing Deadline-Offers in %options%/%end% block"

which doesn't matter if you leave it in... it was never used by the OLWLG... msgfmt(1) does not care of even know if there are messages in there not used.

fwiw regarding how to change the other one that is being used but shouldn't be... the existing catalog does have (though capitalized which may be wrong usage in this case):

#: editmt.cgi:336
msgid "Missing"

I would just have to add a

msgid "block"

though I think adding a

msgid "missing block"

would be the best solution (in Italian google gives msgstr "blocco mancante").

I also haven't grabbed the messages used in the auction finder side of the OLWLG... so "missing block" and the ones from the auction finder I'd make a new set (differently named) of .po.txt files for

ps: and fwiw I have a en_US message catalog now too... only 7 messages but it will translate the typos in msgid's used by the OLWLG into correct spellings (I should have done a spell heck 1st before I started )
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Paolo Desalvo
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Vittek wrote:
Jeff I hope you're not making changes to the IT file. I made a copy on January 18 and we're working on that one.
Marco, as long as Jeff remove only the variables is not a problem for us, while translating we remove them too and everything is ok.
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Jeff Michaud
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BlackSheeper wrote:
Vittek wrote:
Jeff I hope you're not making changes to the IT file. I made a copy on January 18 and we're working on that one.
Marco, as long as Jeff remove only the variables is not a problem for us, while translating we remove them too and everything is ok.
just to be clear I'm not changing any existing msgid's.... I'm going to add a new msgid.

Also heads up... there are 4 other msgid's I just checked that also have text that should be in OLWLGish "English"... the 4 that contain the tag name "altname"

msgid "Items missing an OLWLG altname tag"
msgid "Warning! Missing altname tag"
msgid "are using game id's that are generic and do not have an altname OLWLG tag (or the tag was not added correctly to be recognized)."
msgid "Click here for help on the altname tag"

A quick grep it looks like google translate decided not to translate for the most part "altname" and left it as is in place (there should be 22 times 8, minus 4 or 172... and grep found 148 so 24 got translated into something or were ignored).

I should also check what it did with "OLWLG"??
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Paolo Desalvo
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JeffyJeff wrote:
[...]
I should also check what it did with "OLWLG"??
No, we can do it on our own. We just reported the variable problem since it can have been repeated in all other translations.
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Okay, I have the Hungarian file ready: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1D8ZDpU02wkTniKCVIW-LOMFr51...

FYI: The machine translation was most of the time comprehensible, but it had problems with MT-related jargon (like wants and sweeteners and the term math trade itself), single-word or very short terms (where lack of context makes translation difficult) and stylistic choices (for example used formal you where most non-government websites use informal you now).

Thanks for doing this Jeff, I think it will help me a lot in the future with users who are insecure about their English knowledge.
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QuippeR wrote:
Okay, I have the Hungarian file ready
awesome!

fwiw I added a new msgid

msgid "FINALTRANSLATION"

this if it exists (and not empty) is displayed at the bottom of all the scripts that have a navigation bar at the top. I've added it to your final human translation and installed your message catalog so you should see it now if your language is set to Hungarian!'

I'm thinking about as these final human translations come in that I should turn on (just for those w/final translations) automatically using them (based on what their browser sends for preferred language(s)) if the user is not logged in or has not set an explicit language in their profile. Any thoughts on this?

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Paolo Desalvo
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JeffyJeff wrote:
[...]
I'm thinking about as these final human translations come in that I should turn on (just for those w/final translations) automatically using them (based on what their browser sends for preferred language(s)) if the user is not logged in or has not set an explicit language in their profile. Any thoughts on this?
I think it is ok so. Let people select.
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I don't know if you have people to help for the french validation put I raised my Hand if you need some help. Just tell me what to do. I'm all yours, master!
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kram3r wrote:
I don't know if you have people to help for the french validation put I raised my Hand if you need some help. Just tell me what to do. I'm all yours, master!
I didn't see anyone post yet for that... but would you be doing Parisian French or Canadian French? I'm French Canadian ancestry myself, and my father's 1st language was French, but when we were visiting France he had trouble understanding the locals and vice versa. Also when a co-worker of mine back when who was Danish but studied French visited we used to get a TV station from Quebec and he couldn't understand everything due to the regional differences.

Either way though we could use both... I believe there are a lot more Canadian French (fr_CA) OLWLG users than in France (fr_FR)... and I can load it up as either.

Just download the machine translated one, OLWLG-fr.po.txt from

https://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/LANG/

use an editor that supports utf8 like https://poedit.net/ or vi(m) (make sure to do a :set encoding=utf8)
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