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Aftershock: San Francisco & Venice» Forums » General

Subject: AFTERSHOCK name confusion? rss

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Rex Brynen
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There is already an earthquake-themed game called AFTERSHOCK, used in the military and humanitarian assistance community for training purposes.

https://paxsims.wordpress.com/aftershock/

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/180994/aftershock-humani...

UPDATE

This issue has now been amicably resolved: https://paxsims.wordpress.com/2019/02/08/a-happy-aftershocks...


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Hanover Dean
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I'm sure people will be able to tell the difference. I've never seen that game on shelves at any of the game places I go to , or retail outlets. I'm sure they will be fine.
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This Guy
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I saw this and thought it was problematic to publish a new game with a similar theme and name as one currently published. At best, it’s poor market research.

Edit: I reached out to Stronghold and it does seem to be a research problem. They said:

Quote:
We were unaware of the name until yesterday and we appreciate that it has been brought to our attention.
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Rex Brynen
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AFTERSHOCK: A Humanitarian Crisis Game is a training/education game aimed at humanitarian aid workers, military and diplomatic personnel, and students--which is why you won't find it on the shelves of your local gaming store. It has been used by the US and other militaries, UN agencies, NGOs, and various universities.

It is also a non-profit project, with all net proceeds going to UN humanitarian agencies.

My concerns are that: 1) serious front-line users looking for the game will accidentally purchase a game designed for entertainment purposes, and 2) it will cut into AFTERSHOCK sales that currently contribute to actual humanitarian relief operations.
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Jeff M
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Maybe this version of the game is meant to be another scenario option for those relief workers to train on?
"Now wait a minute. I have a total of 9 bridge tiles out there...that will give me 7 points. That will help alleviate suffering in the area!!"

(Thanks for bringing up this issue. I knew nothing about the original "Aftershock". After looking into it, it looks right up my alley!)
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Jeff Shoot
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Lowden025 wrote:
Maybe this version of the game is meant to be another scenario option for those relief workers to train on?
"Now wait a minute. I have a total of 9 bridge tiles out there...that will give me 7 points. That will help alleviate suffering in the area!!"

(Thanks for bringing up this issue. I knew nothing about the original "Aftershock". After looking into it, it looks right up my alley!)


Rex is right and I would like to add, "Is it THAT hard to put the word "aftershock" into the BGG database and see what comes up?! Stronghold Games, really? You 'hadn't heard of it'?! " shake

"This Guy", you are being more than generous and diplomatic calling it a "research problem." Sounds like whoever is doing their "research" is....snore Or more likely, they did know about it but thought the first game had too small of an audience for anyone to notice, but "Aw, snap"... somebody did!

If the first game had been published like 20 years ago, I might also feel different, but it was published in 2015!

Here's a solution: my first thought about this problem, even before reading Rex's post was "Gee, maybe more people will actually hear about the original game because of the second...."

So, since Stronghold is a bigger, established publisher... and since it is true that their game is totally different, maybe they could put a statement somewhere acknowledging the first game... especially for those who like "heavy" games. (Or at least when they feature it at the big gaming conferences?)

Personally, the first game looks too "heavy" for me to buy anyway, but it would be a kind gesture to use a bit of their wide-exposure to help a non-profit venture. Isn't "giving back" a win-win?

(And I have no pre-conceived notions about Stronghold Games..... but this doesn't look good..)

Just my 2 cents...
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This Guy
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I own a copy of Rex's game and look forward to playing it soon. I'm very interested in seeing a positive outcome for him.

My limited experience as a customer and game enthusiast is that Stronghold is a good industry citizen. I've talked and played with their president on a few occasions at cons. I choose to think this was an honest, if absurdly easy to avoid, mistake.

I had thought it might be an opportunity to gracefully pull back before the project failed, then adapt based on the feedback they've been getting on quality, design, and cost.

But, they just made it over their funding goal. So that makes things more complicated.
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Jeff M
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I suspect the other Aftershock will benefit from this kerfuffle.
I just ordered it after becoming aware of it. I'm surprised it hasn't garnered more attention! Maybe some of the "established" game reviewers will now take a look at it.
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Rex Brynen
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house14 wrote:

Here's a solution: my first thought about this problem, even before reading Rex's post was "Gee, maybe more people will actually hear about the original game because of the second...."

So, since Stronghold is a bigger, established publisher... and since it is true that their game is totally different, maybe they could put a statement somewhere acknowledging the first game... especially for those who like "heavy" games. (Or at least when they feature it at the big gaming conferences?)

Personally, the first game looks too "heavy" for me to buy anyway, but it would be a kind gesture to use a bit of their wide-exposure to help a non-profit venture. Isn't "giving back" a win-win?

It's a good idea. I'm sure it was just an oversight, and we would be very happy to find a win-win outcome to the situation (acknowledgment, marketing coordination, etc.) I've already suggested something along those lines to them.
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James Clarke
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RexBrynen wrote:
house14 wrote:

Here's a solution: my first thought about this problem, even before reading Rex's post was "Gee, maybe more people will actually hear about the original game because of the second...."

So, since Stronghold is a bigger, established publisher... and since it is true that their game is totally different, maybe they could put a statement somewhere acknowledging the first game... especially for those who like "heavy" games. (Or at least when they feature it at the big gaming conferences?)

Personally, the first game looks too "heavy" for me to buy anyway, but it would be a kind gesture to use a bit of their wide-exposure to help a non-profit venture. Isn't "giving back" a win-win?

It's a good idea. I'm sure it was just an oversight, and we would be very to find a win-win outcome to the situation (acknowledgment, marketing coordination, etc.) I've already suggested something along those lines to them.

 

At first glance, they could easily be construed as two versions of the same game.

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This Guy
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Whenever I see the criticisms of the Stronghold game’s verisimilitude (“Why are you building while aftershocks are still happening?” and “why are you causing aftershocks?”), I keep thinking, “Maybe they would have a better grip on it if they played the other Aftershock game.”
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James Clarke
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I'm feeling inspired to get back to work on my fantastic new train game "Ticket to Ride".

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Jeff M
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Aetheros wrote:
Whenever I see the criticisms of the Stronghold game’s verisimilitude (“Why are you building while aftershocks are still happening?” and “why are you causing aftershocks?”), I keep thinking, “Maybe they would have a better grip on it if they played the other Aftershock game.”

...which is what I will be doing.
Wasn't aware of it till posts here.
Ended up cancelling my KS pledge for the latest "Aftershock" and put in my order for the former. What with my background and multiple friends/family involved in one way or another with relief operations I couldn't resist!

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Rex Brynen
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Well, this doesn't bode well.

When Stronghold Games tweeted about the game, I respectfully replied with a clarification that this was not the original AFTERSHOCK, but a different game using the same name:

Quote:
...and in response to all those emailing/DMing me, no this is not the same game as AFTERSHOCK (designed by me and published in 2014). Both are about earthquakes. Ours is used by disaster response professionals, and is a non-profit fundraiser for UN humanitarian relief operations.

I then got blocked by them on on Twitter.
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Robert Leonhard
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I would like to add my vote to rectifying this situation. Rex Brynen's AFTERSHOCK is a great game on an important subject, not to mention that it's proceeds go to a good cause.

Please take action to fix this, especially given that the other game is only in Kickstarter stage. We don't want a confusion on titles to partially obscure a dynamic game that deserves name recognition.
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Happy Everything!
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Ditto on all counts.
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RMN Gamer
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After writing a call for Stronghold Games to do something right they blocked me too. Apparently respectful calls for consideration are not welcome.

Guess that’s the end of buying Terraforming Mars expansions for me.
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Nick LaLone
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It's intensely disappointing to see almost no response at all on this from Stronghold. Also it's disappointing to see that the kickstarter is having issues on its own.

Interestingly, I had responded to Rex Brynen on Twitter when he tweeted at Stronghold. Originally, Stronghold liked my tweet but have since undone that and blocked everyone who mentioned the existing game.

I've used Aftershock in my classes multiple times to great effect. It's a fantastic game and should also be sold as a stealth "Brian Train Game." It has a lot of great asymmetric value and would benefit in that regard with wargamers.

In the end, i'm saddened to see it get anything but positive praise.
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brant G
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nicklalone wrote:
but have since undone that and blocked everyone who mentioned the existing game.

There's enough of us at this point to form our own support group



nicklalone wrote:
as a stealth "Brian Train Game."

Brian was part of the team that outlined the original bones of the game at the Connections conference in 2011, and is credited in the rulebook.
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Rex Brynen
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Being polite Canadians, here's our latest comment on the entire rather odd saga.

https://paxsims.wordpress.com/2019/02/05/aftershocks/
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Brian Train
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nicklalone wrote:
It's intensely disappointing to see almost no response at all on this from Stronghold. Also it's disappointing to see that the kickstarter is having issues on its own.

Interestingly, I had responded to Rex Brynen on Twitter when he tweeted at Stronghold. Originally, Stronghold liked my tweet but have since undone that and blocked everyone who mentioned the existing game.

I've used Aftershock in my classes multiple times to great effect. It's a fantastic game and should also be sold as a stealth "Brian Train Game." It has a lot of great asymmetric value and would benefit in that regard with wargamers.

In the end, i'm saddened to see it get anything but positive praise.

Can there be such a thing as a stealth Brian Train game?
I didn't think I was that devious... ask my wife.

Brian
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Jur dj
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Somebody should do a geekbadge
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Dave Roy
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RockyMountainNavy wrote:
After writing a call for Stronghold Games to do something right they blocked me too. Apparently respectful calls for consideration are not welcome.

Guess that’s the end of buying Terraforming Mars expansions for me.

After retweeting your tweet about being blocked, now I'm blocked.

This is insane.
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Daniel Blumentritt
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Yeah, Stronghold is full of it. Disagreeing that the name is a problem? Ok, fine. Blocking anyone who even brings it up? Not ok. They have "opened their mouths and removed all doubt."
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Grant Whitley

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ltmurnau wrote:

Can there be such a thing as a stealth Brian Train game?

It comes in an underground box.
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