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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: I've got Battlelore, is C&C:A worth it? rss

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Connor Alexander
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Hey all:

I've got Battlelore and all of the expansions and I enjoy it immensely. My question is, is it worth picking up Commands & Colors? Will it get some play time in addition to BL or are they too similar?

Thanks!
 
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David Bohnenberger
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I can't really say if it's worth it to own both; I don't. I have played both games a fair number of times and I prefer C&C:A. Here are my reasons, and they might mean nothing to you:

1) Historical battles. Yes, I know neither game is considered much of a "sim", and I know there are "historical scenarios" in Battlelore, but everyone I play it with wants to use lore and monsters. It just doesn't mean as much to me.

2) The leader blocks in C&C:A add a lot of strategy to the game.

3) The bits. Yes, I actually PREFER the blocks to the tiny monochrome plastic pieces in Battlelore. They are easier to handle, make it much easier to tell one side from another, and setup is a LOT quicker.

Please don't take this as "Battlelore Bashing". I like the game just fine.
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I own both, yet C&C:A makes it to the gaming table a lot more often, for the same reasons stated by David. I would recommend you give C&C:A a try before deciding, in order to see first hand if the differences justify owning both.

Now if they could only make a Napoleonic version of this game....
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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There are already several discussions/reviews what-have-you on this subject over on the Battlelore forum, you should check there. Here's a couple to get you started.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/149325
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/140424
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(Mr.) Kim Beattie
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I have Battlelore and all of the expansions. It is a fine game. But I also prefer C&C:A for much the same reasons mentioned above.
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Michael Brugato
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I have to agree with all of David's (Dweeb) sentiments on this question.

Let me add: BL is a very good game, and I think the Call to Arms expansion adds a very nice wrinkle...but I still end up playing CC:A a lot more.

I just like it better. I think the reason is because I like WWII, WWI and Ancients themed games. (M'44 is a little too simplistic to edge out Battlelore.) BL really starts to get interesting when you incorporate the more fantasy type element of lore rules. Which is another way of saying it's not quite as good when you use it as medieval-only themed game. While I don't mind the fantasy theme, it's edged out by the three themes I mentioned above.

I guess that's a long way of saying I also like CC:A better for the theme in addition to the 3 points David made.
 
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Kevin Duke
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I would add that rules for battle back and evade also add a good bit, as well as having more ranged fire (but not 4 hex range).
 
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Nate Merchant
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TOTALLY! Better than BL.
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Ken Takacs
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I prefer CC:A, I think it is the best of Richard Borg's games. It has a nice amount of tactical options for a game of this type, the interaction of the units is superb, the effect of the cards on unit control works better, and the game is easier to set up and store.
 
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Andy Watkins
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Agree with everyone else. I have M44 and battlelore as well as CCA and try to play all of them, but CCA is easily the best.

If you like any of the three games AND have any interest in ancient warfare it is a total no brainer (buy CCA)

CCA is not more COMPLEX than battlelore, it is just "cleverer" can't think of a better word for it. The rules are simple but the different way battleback, evade and leaders work adds a great deal of depth to the game over battlelore without actually adding any complexity at all.

Typical CCA game still takes an hour, not much different than battlelore.

Bizarrely enough i have painted all my battlelore figures to a high standard, and I think i still prefer the little blocks in CCA. It took several hours to put all the CCA stickers on the blocks, but it took over 2 weeks solid to paint the 217 figures in battlelore
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Kenneth Wofford
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Now that I've owned and played all four games in the system, I can truly say that C&C Ancients is the "magnum opus" of the series. Both Battlelore and Memoir 44' have a certain "looseness" of their rules systems engendered by the plethora of expansions supporting each. The Battlelore rulebook, in particular, was atrocious in its layout (despite being beautiful). It took me several read-thoughs to answer all my questions.

Commands & Colors Ancients, in contrast, feels like a polished, professional design. The second edition rules are very tight. Some frustrating aspects of the system, like section paralysis, are lessened by the leaders. There is a strong incentive from the system to form and maintain lines of infantry. Elephants are historically powerful but fickle. And, most elegantly, the historical differences in the armies are subtly buried in the army block mix, the size of one's hand, and the deployment of forces in the scenario. The blocks are also very easy to store, set up, organize, and move around, greatly speeding play.

While I enjoy Memoir 44 and Battlelore, I usually reserve them for play them with my son. When I play adults, I prefer C&C Ancients. Definitely don't let it pass you by.
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Mike Banks
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Had I started with BL, I'm not sure I would have also picked up C&C. However, having done it the other way around, I got rid of BL almost as soon as I got it.

Yes, BL sure is pretty -- but, much to my *own* surprise & like many others here, I also prefer the C&C blocks: MUCH easier to setup, identify at a quick glance, move around, and put away.

C&C is certainly no more complex than BL, but with one important difference: where BL has the highly luck-driven (& wildly imbalanced, IMO) Lore mechanic, C&C instead has the more tactical Leaders, battle-back, and evade options. I cannot help but feel that BL is essentially a slightly dumbed-down eye-candy version of C&C -- which likely would have been just fine, had I not already experienced the real deal.

Quote:
If CC:A would get some sort of CtA system, I'd be set.


Have a look at Don Clarke's "Scenario X" system, which is how we play here most of the time anymore! (sorry, I don't have the link) There are something like 69 different armies to choose from -- each of which can be custom tailored by the players, as can terrain. It's a very fine system for C&C fans!
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Jesse Smit
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Another "C&C:A is better" from me, for reasons that have mostly already been covered above. I used to own both but I sold Battlelore.

 
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Sifu
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Same as all the above.
 
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1. Buy C&C:Ancients.
2. Sell/Trade BattleLore - you won't need it.
3. Happiness.
 
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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I have all of Richard Borg's C&C-system titles thus far published. I have folks in my group that will play one or two particular titles but not the others. Some over play. Some over theme.

I think they're all great fun and different enough from one another to justify the cost to my pocketbook!

But it's up to you. If you really enjoy BattleLore, I think you'll find the differences found in C&C:Ancients worth having in your collection, too.
 
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