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Subject: Game looks great but is it a scam? rss

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Joel Mann
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I was going to back this game then I noticed in the comments that this is the same guy who scammed people on KS with a game called Darkness Sabotage. It has apparently never been delivered and the comments claim this is the same guy on this KS. I don't have money to waste on a scam. Does anybody know for sure? If it is a scam to bad the game looks great.

Update: Ok I was waiting a while to get more information before I backed this project and it has now been cancelled even though it received a lot of backing. I don't know if it was a scam or not it seems there were a lot of views on both sides.
What I do know is this seemed like a really great idea for a solo game and I usually avoid solo games. I would hope that a reputable game company would contact this guy and actually get this game printed. Even if it was a scam it was a great idea that had a lot of work put into it.
Oh well there are tons of great games out there to play. If this one never gets printed we will all survive.
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Alex
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Well for whats it worth, it doesn't look like a scam. I don't know anything besides what I've seen of the content, and what I've seen from the forums. Seems to me if someone physically designs and makes a game he didn't do all that work just to scam people. There's a print and play even.

Just seems way too legitimate to be a scam.
 
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Alex
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Also, did you check out the creator info from both projects? I see no reason to think they are the same people. No evidence, only one guy in the comments saying this is the same guy.
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Nate Robinson
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Wreck Havok just posted on KS that are not the same people.
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Tim Renz
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Nathan1974 wrote:
Wreck Havok just posted on KS that are not the same people.
Actually he just said he wasnt the creator of darkness sabotage. He didn't say he wasn't the same Doug Kerr from DS
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Alex
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Valgrim129 wrote:
Nathan1974 wrote:
Wreck Havok just posted on KS that are not the same people.
Actually he just said he wasnt the creator of darkness sabotage. He didn't say he wasn't the same Doug Kerr from DS
Good enough for me! Sharpen the pitchforks, light the torches!

Just joking..

I've just been following the development of this game for months, and this guy has been so involved with the public with feedback and suggestions, it just seems so unlikely to be a scam.
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Yeah I think this is unfortunate. Doug Kerr might be the same guy from both companies, but he is not leading either. Might being keyword.

I don’t see having a person from another failed Kickstarter who was not the leader as a red flag.
 
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Josh Nakauye
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Honestly if you are going to scams you don’t pick the solo community, they are small and niche, not likely to get enough money to be worth it.
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Nushura
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I also saw the raising concerns mentioned on KS. I dug a bit and could not find any link between this project to Dethrone Games or Darkness Sabotage. I wonder where and how did people link the two companies?

Nathan1974 wrote:
Wreck Havok just posted on KS that are not the same people.
The only information that we have is that the creator said "I am not that scammer"...which is not much to trust on.

I do find suspicious that the creator has Wreak Havok Games has had zero activity other than this KS. Nothing on the internet, no FB account, only activity I could find is this game and this very first KS that they created.
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BG.EXE
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This KS seems fine. I’ve seen Kickstarter scams before, they didn’t look like this. They certainly didn’t have full playthrough videos, or even prototypes.

First created, zero backed is always a risk but this risk seems very low.
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Tim Renz
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Nushura wrote:
I also saw the raising concerns mentioned on KS. I dug a bit and could not find any link between this project to Dethrone Games or Darkness Sabotage. I wonder where and how did people link the two companies?
I don't think they are linking the two companies together. I believe they are looking at Doug Kerr name. Darkness Sabotage made over 200k and hasnt had an update in almost a year. If it is the same Doug Kerr that would make him Desmonds business partner according to the campaign page.
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BG.EXE
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In the comments he says Wreak Havoc has nothing to do with that project. So it seems there’s no connection.
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So I can’t believe everything I read on the internet. What is this world coming too..
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Destrio Dai
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The KS page of Darkness Sabotage mentions a Douglas Kerr as part of the team that should've brought this game to life and posted pictures of every team member.

This project's KS page just has a similar name that others have noticed (Doug vs Douglas, same last name). (edit: both projects want to be funded in CAD) Even if these two are the same person, that doesn't mean this KS will not deliver.

That being said, if I were part of a team that went dark on a successfully funded KS, I wouldn't try to launch another one without clearing myself of any wrongdoing in the first. But maybe my opinion is biased since I'm a backer of Darkness Sabotage.
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Dan
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boardgamesdotEXE wrote:
In the comments he says Wreak Havoc has nothing to do with that project. So it seems there’s no connection.
Going to look much worse when they admit there is a connection. Because they're going to.
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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If you have doubts don't back, any reason that justifies it for you is a good reason.
It might not be a scam, or it might be, but it's KS and KS is a gamble. And if you're not comfortable with that, then you should not back, even should the creator be an already established and reliable creator.
You can always pick the game up later or if it goes back to KS for a reprint + expansion.
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CardBoard Bear

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to answer the OP, I don't know but I have the following observations:

1. the english of the KS and the v.1 rulebook sounds like it belongs to someone who is not fluent, but the KS is based in Canada, and the designer's name looks english. however it may just be they are not entirely fluent, not that it's a scam.

2. the guy who shows the solo gameplay looks like it's the first time he plays after a good read of the rulebook, or maybe the third time, but to me, it didn't look like he was super familiar with the game. however, the description does say the designer suffers from anxiety, so maybe the designer didn't feel comfortable shooting the video. or to be honest, it's possible the guy was just nervous?

3. the KS account, the youtube account and the BGG account...they are all brand new. that's a bit weird but it's not a crime

4. I did get a bit of spider sense feedback, but I am not entirely sure why.
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S. L.
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Wreak Havoc can deny their involvement all they like with the Darkness Sabotage kickstarter campaign, they have not addressed the fact that Doug Kerr is now the Producer for Ghost Star and working for Wreak Havoc as the Producer for this game.

There is a photo of Doug Kerr on the Darkness Sabotage Kickstarter page so anyone connected with Wreak Havoc who hasn't personally met Doug Kerr can seek Passport ID to clarify.

As has been previously stated the Board Game Geek account is new so no track history with the designer
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Lee Anderton
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I’ve only backed 2 games on Kickstarter. One is Tainted Grail and the other Gloom of Kilforth as a second print run. When the page on Ghost Star says money back guarantee I’m guessing that if you never receive the game because it was a scam you can’t get your money back period. Or do some of these companies take out some kind of insurance so they can pay investors back if they fail to deliver the game at all?
 
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Alex
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Right now all the evidence, that is everything we actually know, points towards it not being a scam. So logically if we are going to assume anything, we should assume it isn't. Right Spock?
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Shelby Babb
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I think it's worth considering that a "scam" is not the sole measure to consider here. A scam implies there's active intent to defraud people, but an incompetent dreamer can just as easily fail to deliver as any scammer.

That said, I don't think this is a scam.

Why?

The Print-n-Play. Sure it's light, sure it's not the same as actually printing and shipping a product out, but this is someone who came to market with something more developed than a simple dream. You could print and play the thing right now if you wanted, but you should at least look over the components and rules and see how much game is actually there (and how well it works!).

Now, it could all go belly up easily enough, and yes this guy is -just- starting out, but a true scammer wouldn't go to the trouble of making a product they could actually sell.
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BG.EXE
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dla133 wrote:
I’ve only backed 2 games on Kickstarter. One is Tainted Grail and the other Gloom of Kilforth as a second print run. When the page on Ghost Star says money back guarantee I’m guessing that if you never receive the game because it was a scam you can’t get your money back period. Or do some of these companies take out some kind of insurance so they can pay investors back if they fail to deliver the game at all?
Kickstarter has no money back guarantee of any kind. On their Accountability page they state they do not issue refunds. It’s not a store, at its core Kickstarter is giving money to support an idea. It very quickly developed into “give us money to support an idea and IN RETURN we’ll give you the first run of the product”. But it’s still not a store and should never be used as such.

Any money back guarantee is a good faith promise from a developer. Nothing on Kickstarter is actually backed by anything enforceable. As Raz said above, if you’re ever uncomfortable with a Kickstarter for any reason, just don’t back. I’ve backed nearly 50 projects and the only ones that didn’t deliver anything were video games. That was 2 of the 50-ish projects I’ve backed. I don’t back video games anymore.
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boardgamesdotEXE wrote:
In the comments he says Wreak Havoc has nothing to do with that project. So it seems there’s no connection.
Wouldn't a scammer claim he is not a scammer?
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BG.EXE
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IMunky wrote:
boardgamesdotEXE wrote:
In the comments he says Wreak Havoc has nothing to do with that project. So it seems there’s no connection.
Wouldn't a scammer claim he is not a scammer?
I’d say his word is currently a little more valuable than some random guy in the comments saying he is. There are playthrough videos of a high quality prototype, the project is only $30, as someone mentioned the game is solo only, there was a rulebook you could read before the project even launched. There are zero minis. This doesn’t resemble a board game scam whatsoever.
 
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Tim Renz
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boardgamesdotEXE wrote:
IMunky wrote:
boardgamesdotEXE wrote:
In the comments he says Wreak Havoc has nothing to do with that project. So it seems there’s no connection.
Wouldn't a scammer claim he is not a scammer?
I’d say his word is currently a little more valuable than some random guy in the comments saying he is. There are playthrough videos of a high quality prototype, the project is only $30, as someone mentioned the game is solo only, there was a rulebook you could read before the project even launched. There are zero minis. This doesn’t resemble a board game scam whatsoever.
i wouldn't say just because they have a demo or print and play of the game it couldn't be a scam or something else won't happen. Dethrone Games had a playable demo of Darkness Sabotage posted shortly after the kickstarter started. With Minis, tokens, boards. Which can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpKN3Q5Q3zA

Bottom line is just beware of what you are backing on kickstarter because things may look legit turn out not to be. I don't think this is a scam. I won't back it until i hear if this guy is the same one from Darkness Sabotage. Regardless of his role in that kickstarter the whole team have currently left backers in the dark for almost a year.
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