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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: More Predictable Chaos Bag rss

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Nicholas Kitts
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Hey all, I've been trying out a simple chaos bag variant and find it pretty neat!

1. When a chaos token is drawn, it is left out of the bag.

2. When an elder sign token is drawn (or an elder sign effect occurs) all tokens are returned to the bag.

Edge Case - If there are no tokens remaining in the bag, all unsealed tokens are returned to the bag.


This variant accomplishes two main things:

-Prevents multiple tentacle draws in a row
-Allows you to anticipate how rough the future is going to be, without ever being a perfect prediction of the future



So far it hasn't seemed imbalanced, what do you guys think?
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Alfy Burger
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Re: Strategic Chaos Bag
The advantage of solo and cooperative games is that anyone can play them as they like.

Personally, I treat the chaos bag as a many-faced dice (and I guess it's the original intent). There is no reason why the same token couldn't come up many times in a row, it's just improbable.
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Alexandre Piquet
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Re: Strategic Chaos Bag
demonsarepeopletoo wrote:
So far it hasn't seemed imbalanced, what do you guys think?
That designers have balanced the game the way they wanted it balanced.

I'm not sure your 2 is a great idea for your goal: yes it still allows you to know what can be drawn next time, but you can't make long term estimations. Let's say you have already drawn 3 special tokens, the auto-fail and the - 4, you now have a max penalty of -2 so you could consider that you don't need any boost for turn. You then reveal the Elder sign so you move back all tokens to your bag and the 2 remaining actions can auto-fail again.

Other big negative for me: you can no longer "math" your play: with the normal rules you can at the beginning of the game determine your chances of success with a +2/+3 towards difficulty. With your variant, these chances vary continually.
 
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Nicholas Kitts
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Re: Strategic Chaos Bag
Xahendir wrote:
demonsarepeopletoo wrote:
So far it hasn't seemed imbalanced, what do you guys think?
That designers have balanced the game the way they wanted it balanced.

I'm not sure your 2 is a great idea for your goal: yes it still allows you to know what can be drawn next time, but you can't make long term estimations. Let's say you have already drawn 3 special tokens, the auto-fail and the - 4, you now have a max penalty of -2 so you could consider that you don't need any boost for turn. You then reveal the Elder sign so you move back all tokens to your bag and the 2 remaining actions can auto-fail again.

Other big negative for me: you can no longer "math" your play: with the normal rules you can at the beginning of the game determine your chances of success with a +2/+3 towards difficulty. With your variant, these chances vary continually.
*shrug* It's just a variant idea, not anything that makes the game 100% better.

Your comment did make me realize that I guess I had another goal in mind when making this. I think I would prefer a system where your reaction to the success chance changes over the course of play, rather than just the deckbuilding stage.

The elder token idea was just to add a hint of uncertainty to the mix, similar to the current system's omnipresent threat of the tentacle.

But I definitely see where you're coming from!
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Alexandre Piquet
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Re: Strategic Chaos Bag
demonsarepeopletoo wrote:
*shrug* It's just a variant idea, not anything that makes the game 100% better.
What I mean is that the balance must be very difficult for designers who know what is coming in advance so fiddling to much with the rules may have unexpected effets later. Let's say that in a few cycles they use this mechanism in a slightly different way, you will have to completely redesign your variant and re-learn it.
I prefer sticking to the rule and, in case I'm really angry at the chaos bag, I just re-draw a token/use a skill card/... a posteriori (I think I have very rarely done that though).

Your idea is not uninteresting but I think it's a stretch to call it "strategic", "more predictable" would be more true.
 
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Nicholas Kitts
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Xahendir wrote:
demonsarepeopletoo wrote:
*shrug* It's just a variant idea, not anything that makes the game 100% better.
What I mean is that the balance must be very difficult for designers who know what is coming in advance so fiddling to much with the rules may have unexpected effets later. Let's say that in a few cycles they use this mechanism in a slightly different way, you will have to completely redesign your variant and re-learn it.
I prefer sticking to the rule and, in case I'm really angry at the chaos bag, I just re-draw a token/use a skill card/... a posteriori (I think I have very rarely done that though).

Your idea is not uninteresting but I think it's a stretch to call it "strategic", "more predictable" would be more true.
Fair enough, changed the name.
 
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Christian K
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Cool idea! This was originally how I thought the bag would work. It would also give a fun non-static game where some cards are sometimes better because of the state of the bag.
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Matthew
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So basically the Gloomhaven system. If it works for you, sure, go for it.
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Erik Oliver
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When I first saw the game I wanted it to work more like this (e.g. Gloomhaven-esque approach). Overall now, I like the system as is, though getting 4 auto-fails in a row (using an app for randomness) can try my patience.
 
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Dustin Vogel
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I do the same thing, but everything goes back in on an elder sign OR an autofail (aka the Gloomhaven system)
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