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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Strategy

Subject: He who hesitates... loses? rss

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Steve Crow
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Iowa City
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We've now played 30+ games, almost entirely in three-player. And with all the expansions available at the time. Most of them we lose. But we always count up victory pile points, win or lose. And...

It seems like the person who goes first has more points in 75% of the games then the other two players. The person who comes in second wins 20-24% of the time. And the last-player player picks up the other 1-5% of the "wins" based on points.

Is that typical? It seems like letting everyone play an equal number of turns might help. Otherwise, like in any game where the person who goes first has more turns, they're going to be more likely to win. But an equal number of turns could mean there's nobody in the HQ to be beaten by the second and third player, so it might not make much of a difference.

The first player often gets better choices from the HQ. They can snag the 2s, 3s, and 4s, leaving the second player with the 5+s which they may not be able to afford. And then the third player is even in worse position.

That's assuming an "average" draw of 2-4 Recruiters, and 1-4 fighters. Yeah, if the third player draws 5 Recruiters, it's a whole different ballgame.

Otherwise, is there a way to address it? Should it be addressed?

Overall it seems like first player has a substantial advantage. To the point where I'd always insist on going first.
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Chris E
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We avoid all that by never counting points. We win as a team or lose as a team. Going that route might solve the problems of players prioritizing points over victory.
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Dale Stephenson
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In Dominion the first player is always the player to the left of the previous winner -- that wouldn't change first player advantage, but would at least redistribute it.
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Tyrell Archer
Canada
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Interesting observation. I shall consider it the next time we play.
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s rob
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In Star Realms the first player starts the game with a reduced hand size. It's a PvP deck builder instead of co-op but deals with the same issue of first player advantage.
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My wife and I have noticed the same in 2 player. We alternate going first.
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Justin H

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I play 2 and 3 player a lot, and have noticed a slight edge to the first player more pronounced in 3 player games. It's not anything as drastic as you have noted. Sometimes the third player doesn't get the pick of the litter, but sometimes the first player doesn't have a great selection and it's only after some cards are revealed from the HQ that something really good comes out.

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Steve Crow
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One other thing: We play with Sidekicks/New Recruits. So there's always 2-cost heroes to buy.

-----

The distribution isn't really the issue. It's more going into Game X with everyone having the mindset, "Oh, Player the First is going to 'win'".

Yeah, you can play to win as a group, But then a) it's basically a full-coordination game, and you might as well play Aliens, Predators, or Firefly for that. And b) if you're ignoring those little red circle-points on the right-hand side 90% of the time, what's the point?

We like the fact that someone "wins" on top of playing to beat the Mastermind/Commander as a group. It reminds us of games like... Minion Hunter, where you can lose as a team, but even if you win as a team there is still one specific "winner".

Thanks, all!
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Steve Crow
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Card selection is one of those things that theoretically effect everyone equally, so it really has no "biased" effect on any given player.

Having played a dozen more times, our consensus is still that we'd rather be the first player than the last. It just seems like the selection initially is a little better than what other people get off of the cards that replace the 1P's buy.
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