Wil
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I bumped into a video of Assault on Doomrock a day ago (old game, as these things go!), and I found the abstracted nature of the combat fascinating. (it's a *tactical* game, but without any concept of distance, hex movement, or line of sight. Instead, battles are just represented with round chips. Any group of chips connected to each other are "adjacent", and any group you're not connected to are "distant". Too many adjacent enemies, and you're "surrounded", Adjacency, distance, and being surrounded determine the kind of actions you can make.)



Are there any other games with this kind of mechanism, taking something usually involved or detailed, and reducing it down to a more simplistic version? Is Doomrock even innovative or are there other earlier games which use this kind of mechanism?

Btw, I'm not just referring to the abstraction of distance/adjacency, but maybe some other stuff - abstracted initiative? abstracted hit points? etc. :)


Thanks all!
 
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Jason
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Doomrock is the only game I know of that has an abstracted system like that. The combat is what I found most interesting about the game. I'd really like to see the system a little more refined and used in a game that's not wrapped in random adventuring.
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Wil
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VaultBoy wrote:
Doomrock is the only game I know of that has an abstracted system like that. The combat is what I found most interesting about the game. I'd really like to see the system a little more refined and used in a game that's not wrapped in random adventuring.
Me too! The dice allotment system is... ok..ish? (Sucks that you can just roll dice that you can't assign) but the whole moving-tiles-around-with-adjacency is just damn elegant.

If the battles were also a little more fast paced instead of hitting trucks with foam sticks, and it's just smoothened out into a series of three battles with quick loot gains in the middle, that would be a damn fine game.
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Jason
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inaytaobako wrote:
VaultBoy wrote:
Doomrock is the only game I know of that has an abstracted system like that. The combat is what I found most interesting about the game. I'd really like to see the system a little more refined and used in a game that's not wrapped in random adventuring.
Me too! The dice allotment system is... ok..ish? (Sucks that you can just roll dice that you can't assign) but the whole moving-tiles-around-with-adjacency is just damn elegant.

If the battles were also a little more fast paced instead of hitting trucks with foam sticks, and it's just smoothened out into a series of three battles with quick loot gains in the middle, that would be a damn fine game.
Yep. You nailed the two issues I had with the game.
- Turns where bad dice rolls have the player doing little to nothing.
- Long battles that were focused on trying to break armor.

The abstracted combat with the way adjacency, surrounded, and simply handling things as groups is so interesting to play. While less of a unique mechanism, the monster AI meshed with those mechanisms really made the monsters feel unique. That abstracted combat makes it feel like zombies actually swarming.
 
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Thanee
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Not sure if these fit what you are looking for, but I do think there are a number of games that have something like this.

For example...

Cry Havoc - you use a "battle board" to place your units on certain areas to use them for certain activities in the battle.

Rising Sun - somewhat similar to the above, but you secretly bid with coins for various activities that are relevant for the outcome of the battle.

Runewars - battles are fought by sorting the involved units by initiative and then drawing cards for each of the unit types to see what kind of damage they inflict.

Shogun/Wallenstein Big Box - to fight a battle, you pick up all the army cubes and throw them in a "cube tower", where they tumble down, get stuck or make it down to the bottom. Whoever has more cubes of the own color come out is the winner. Cubes that remain in the tower will still be around and might come out in a later battle, thus giving you a built-in way to even the odds, if a battle goes sideways, since your chances in the next will be better.

Bye
Thanee
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Michael Schneider
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inaytaobako wrote:
(it's a *tactical* game, but without any concept of distance, hex movement, or line of sight. [...] Any group of chips connected to each other are "adjacent", and any group you're not connected to are "distant". Too many adjacent enemies, and you're "surrounded", Adjacency, distance, and being surrounded determine the kind of actions you can make.)
Isn't this a concept of distance?

But this really is a pretty unique design for a tactical game.
 
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Michael Schneider
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Thanee wrote:
Aren't these "just" variations for combat resolution?
But I have to admit, that I thought of Wallenstein, too.
 
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Will Shaw
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The combat in Heroes of Terrinoth (and its predecessor Warhammer Quest: The Adventure Card Game) is abstracted. Enemies are either engaged with a hero or “in the shadows” if not. Heroes can only attack enemies engaged with them, unless they have a ranged attack in which case they can target any enemy (engaged with them, engaged with another hero or in the shadows).
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Jason
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CarlosSpicyweener wrote:
inaytaobako wrote:
(it's a *tactical* game, but without any concept of distance, hex movement, or line of sight. [...] Any group of chips connected to each other are "adjacent", and any group you're not connected to are "distant". Too many adjacent enemies, and you're "surrounded", Adjacency, distance, and being surrounded determine the kind of actions you can make.)
Isn't this a concept of distance?

But this really is a pretty unique design for a tactical game.
Not really. If you're adjacent to nothing, then everything is the same distance away (a single move action). If you're in a group, then everything in that group is adjacent.

I think an expansion also added obstacles and cover. I don't know how much that changed the rules.

Thinking about the system, it would be interesting to implement in a 2-player skirmish game.
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Michael Schneider
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VaultBoy wrote:

Not really. If you're adjacent to nothing, then everything is the same distance away (a single move action).
Ok, this explains it. Thanks.
 
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