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Subject: Yet another question about validity of clues rss

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I just wanted to solicit some opinions on this matter from the community, for an instance that came up in a recent game. I understand that everyone is free to play Decrypto according to what set of rules they prefer ...but I think, in general, most people would probably agree that giving clues that are related to the letter composition of a word are INVALID clues (e.g: "Six letters long" or "Starts with a 'C'")

However, in my recent game, here is a clue that the opposing team came up with...

WORD: "Trumpet"
CLUE: "President" --> "Trump" --> "Trumpet"


My personal opinion is that this was an INVALID clue, because the clue given is dealing with the composition of the word rather than the word itself. (The code giver confirmed that his clue was intended to lead to "Trump" in order to signal "Trumpet").

If a given word were "Carpet", I think using clues like "Automobile" (--> "Car" --> "Carpet") and "Goldfish" (--> "Pet" --> "Carpet") would also be invalid, because they don't relate to the meaning of the word itself in any manner. Clues such as these would ruin the spirit of the game. Note that this is a tad different than cases where the word may be "Sunglasses" and the clue given is: "Moon" --> "Sun" --> "Sunglasses", because "Sun" is related to the meaning of "Sunglasses", and just happens to be part of the target word.

So if you ask me, my rule would be that any clue given has to somehow be associated with the meaning of the target word, not the spelling or length or any physical attribute of the word.

But I'm just curious what the community thinks about my specific instance tho? (Using "President" as a clue for "Trumpet", with the connection being "Trump")
 
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Ben Kyo
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I agree it is an invalid clue. No link to meaning intended (regardless of whether or not one can be derived by some convoluted route involving fanfares).
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Pez Pez
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I would also find the clue to be invalid. Actually if I was given this clue I think I would have been very confused with it.
The clue has to do with the meaning of the word, at least that is how I play the game
 
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Tom Ginn
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I could see my gaming group discussing this at length, but ultimately coming to the conclusion that it is an invalid clue. Obviously people are free to play the game however they want; the main goal is to have fun so do whatever is necessary to make that happen! But yeah, I would lean to the side of saying this type of clue-giving is not valid. I think it becomes a slippery slope to all kinds of clues that kinda go against the spirit of the game.
 
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Christian Lemay
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sfoozy wrote:
I just wanted to solicit some opinions on this matter from the community, for an instance that came up in a recent game. I understand that everyone is free to play Decrypto according to what set of rules they prefer ...but I think, in general, most people would probably agree that giving clues that are related to the letter composition of a word are INVALID clues (e.g: "Six letters long" or "Starts with a 'C'")

However, in my recent game, here is a clue that the opposing team came up with...

WORD: "Trumpet"
CLUE: "President" --> "Trump" --> "Trumpet"


My personal opinion is that this was an INVALID clue, because the clue given is dealing with the composition of the word rather than the word itself. (The code giver confirmed that his clue was intended to lead to "Trump" in order to signal "Trumpet").

If a given word were "Carpet", I think using clues like "Automobile" (--> "Car" --> "Carpet") and "Goldfish" (--> "Pet" --> "Carpet") would also be invalid, because they don't relate to the meaning of the word itself in any manner. Clues such as these would ruin the spirit of the game. Note that this is a tad different than cases where the word may be "Sunglasses" and the clue given is: "Moon" --> "Sun" --> "Sunglasses", because "Sun" is related to the meaning of "Sunglasses", and just happens to be part of the target word.

So if you ask me, my rule would be that any clue given has to somehow be associated with the meaning of the target word, not the spelling or length or any physical attribute of the word.

But I'm just curious what the community thinks about my specific instance tho? (Using "President" as a clue for "Trumpet", with the connection being "Trump")
This clue is completed against the spirit in which we wrote the rules.
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gregg re
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It's not a great sign if your rules require people to subjectively make up a standard for what clues truly "refer to the meaning" of the words. The game is wishy-washy, which is fine for a party game, but it's silly to pretend this clue is somehow illegal. As another poster mentioned, "trumpet" clearly could be argued -- and reasonably so -- to refer to fanfare surrounding a world leader. If you want to go around interpreting the subjective intent of the clue-giver, let me know where to pick up your mind-reading software!

Example: "If a given word were "Carpet", I think using clues like "Automobile" (--> "Car" --> "Carpet") and "Goldfish" (--> "Pet" --> "Carpet") would also be invalid"

You don't think cars have carpets? How exactly would you prove the clue giver meant one and not the other?
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M. B. Downey
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greggre12288 wrote:
How exactly would you prove the clue giver meant one and not the other?
You don’t “prove” anything, you trust the players not to cheat and to play within the spirit of the game.
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Kirk Roberts
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downeymb wrote:
greggre12288 wrote:
How exactly would you prove the clue giver meant one and not the other?
You don’t “prove” anything, you trust the players not to cheat and to play within the spirit of the game.
Right.
If you ever find yourself having a serious argument while playing about something like this then everybody has already lost.
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Thanks all for the feedback! I was playing this game with friends and I guess it's on me for not explaining the rules this precisely to them when I was teaching them the game. But yes, in the end, it's all about having fun with whatever rules everyone agrees on.
 
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Miguel Pacheco
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Then I guess the clue I once gave which was "Little cute robots from the future" - (word was WALL so WALL-E) was invalid as well right?

But in the same game my other word was ROOF and I said "Old Jewish Men Singing and Dancing" which relates to FIDDLER ON THE ROOF which I think is valid right?
 
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M. B. Downey
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ilpalazo wrote:
Then I guess the clue I once gave which was "Little cute robots from the future" - (word was WALL so WALL-E) was invalid as well right?
Unclear, since WALL-E is hyphenated and not a separate word and I don't recall if it stands for something or not, but probably invalid.

Quote:
But in the same game my other word was ROOF and I said "Old Jewish Men Singing and Dancing" which relates to FIDDLER ON THE ROOF which I think is valid right?
This is valid.
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Miguel Pacheco
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WALL-E is simply the name of the robot, and it doesnt really related back to WALL as a concept, so its a similar situation as president for trump for trumpet I think.

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Ron I
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ilpalazo wrote:
WALL-E is simply the name of the robot, and it doesnt really related back to WALL as a concept, so its a similar situation as president for trump for trumpet I think.
As you've already noted, I think this is against the spirit of the game. Since Wall-E has no conceptual relation to Wall other than a naming coincidence, your clue "little cute robots from the future" cannot follow a conceptual logical chain back to the clue "Wall".

This can be applied as a check for the validity of clues in general. "Old Jewish Men Singing and Dancing" -> "Fiddler on the Roof" -> "Roof" is legal because every link in the chain is conceptually sound. "Trump" -> "Trumpet" is not legal because there is no conceptual link from US President Trump to a trumpet, again only a happenstance matching of name. Or, at the very least, the name matching far outweighs any argument that could be made about the link between a brass instrument and Donald Trump. As was mentioned, in these cases you just need to trust the people you play with to not intentionally try to "game" their clues.
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