Jason K
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I know they are apples and oranges, but Sentinels is about my limit with fiddliness.

So, I was just wondering how this rated in terms of fiddliness compared with Sentinels.

I’m really hoping that it’s less (or even comparable), because this looks like something I’ll like (even with the rules vagueness). But if it’s more fiddly, then I just bought a whole package from Fun Again that will sit on my shelf longer than Mage Knight (which I never played - but still love It’s possible!)
 
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Dillon Flaherty
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It's far less fiddly than SotM. Almost every game I've played, actually, is less fiddly than SotM (at least in terms of the fiddliness:complexity value)

Mistfall is very streamlined in play once you understand the rules (which are considerable the first few times) - Next to no shuffling and just a few tokens for damage/status/xp to keep around.
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Jason K
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Thanks for this.

I ordered it yesterday and was excited to play until I started digging deeper into the reviews. I was concerned.

I understand it’s complex (and that the rules take some extra effort), but, from what I’ve watched, the gameplay looks deep and combo-laden.

I’m excited again
 
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Bitchy Little Boy
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Bucharest
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It is the Rulebook that is complex, playing the game is stimulating.
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Jan Probst
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I only know the app version of SoTM; correctly resolving those villain phases manually, on my own, with cards and stuff would probably make me rage.
In Mistfall, the enemy phase pretty much plays itself with no notable timing nightmares.

(I guess there's also the idea that in competently played Mistfall, everything is dead and there is no enemy phase of consequence. That usually doesn't work in SoTM, where a competently played Villain phase has everything run into some complexish redirect/tank setup. In manual instead of app you could skip obviously pointless resolutions if Legacy's damage resistance is high enough or something instead of having to click 9001 times in the app, but you still need at least brief checking if a given enemy is in fact pointless. If you use a less facerolly tank than Legacy, everything moreso)

So yeah, another vote for less fiddly.
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Jonathan Rowe
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Spalding
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I'm going to buck the trend and say they're kinda similar.

Some of the SotM Heroes, Locations and Villains definitely take things to a fiddliness level that Mistfall never goes to. Mistfall rather plays out like basic HotM Heroes up against basic Villains in a basic Location (say, Freedom Five versus Baron Blade in Megalopolis).

The main difference is that Mistfall lacks these ongoing subroutines where every turn you have to check something, deal a certain amount of damage, play a card, etc. These subroutines exist in Mistfall, but they tend to be one-offs (based on a Location tile's special condition or the set-up or aftermath of an Encounter).

Having said that, Mistfall asks you to do something that SotM doesn't, which is make considered judgements about whether to buy Advanced Feats and which ones. There are a dozen Feats to look through and consider (although the choice is often curtailed to less than that number). SotM simply asks you to choose a card from the ones in your hand; at most, certain effects have you searching through your deck for a specific type of card (like Absolute Zero putting a Module into play or Nightmist hunting for a Relic). This is the only sense in which Mistfall is more fiddly than SotM and it's quite significant.

In play, both games progress in fiddliness as you gain in power. SotM involves more and more buffs and debuffs and other contingencies: Mistfall involves inherited keywords, checking Vulnerabilities, tracking Focus and triggering Rage. Since the fiddliness ramps up gently, you don't usually notice the cognitive load it's placing on you as you go.
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Dillon Flaherty
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deadmarlowe wrote:
I'm going to buck the trend and say they're kinda similar.

Some of the SotM Heroes, Locations and Villains definitely take things to a fiddliness level that Mistfall never goes to. Mistfall rather plays out like basic HotM Heroes up against basic Villains in a basic Location (say, Freedom Five versus Baron Blade in Megalopolis).

The main difference is that Mistfall lacks these ongoing subroutines where every turn you have to check something, deal a certain amount of damage, play a card, etc. These subroutines exist in Mistfall, but they tend to be one-offs (based on a Location tile's special condition or the set-up or aftermath of an Encounter).

Having said that, Mistfall asks you to do something that SotM doesn't, which is make considered judgements about whether to buy Advanced Feats and which ones. There are a dozen Feats to look through and consider (although the choice is often curtailed to less than that number). SotM simply asks you to choose a card from the ones in your hand; at most, certain effects have you searching through your deck for a specific type of card (like Absolute Zero putting a Module into play or Nightmist hunting for a Relic). This is the only sense in which Mistfall is more fiddly than SotM and it's quite significant.

In play, both games progress in fiddliness as you gain in power. SotM involves more and more buffs and debuffs and other contingencies: Mistfall involves inherited keywords, checking Vulnerabilities, tracking Focus and triggering Rage. Since the fiddliness ramps up gently, you don't usually notice the cognitive load it's placing on you as you go.
You make some good points about having to look through cards and decide as taking up time, but I don't necessarily associate that with "fiddliness" (maybe I'm being fiddly with my associations!)

In Mistfall, picking and timing of those cards is a very critical and important part of the gameplay. It's incredibly interesting and makes the player think of what they want to do and when they want to do it.

More than anything, I remember SotM giving very little of that same feeling. You have a set of cards and you get one more card and you pick between a narrow subset of... kind of boring actions turn after turn.

The fiddliness comes in with lots of token management and small damage numbers multiple times a round. Hit the boss or an enemy 3-4 times for 1-3 damage each. Add tokens, remove tokens, some actions get tokens per turn. Tokens tokens tokens tokens.

Granted, SotM is a pretty dated game at this point and games like Mistfall (and many others) were able to learn and grow from the nuances that made SotM annoying, despite having some fun mechanics. 4 years in this age of boardgame renaissance is a LONG time.

In my mind, it's the consistently interesting player agency and choices that make Mistfall much more engaging with less bookkeeping to get in the way of the game.
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Jason K
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deadmarlowe wrote:
I'm going to buck the trend and say they're kinda similar.

Some of the SotM Heroes, Locations and Villains definitely take things to a fiddliness level that Mistfall never goes to. Mistfall rather plays out like basic HotM Heroes up against basic Villains in a basic Location (say, Freedom Five versus Baron Blade in Megalopolis).
This I can handle easily.

Overall, I like the tabletop version of Sentinels. The basic mode was actually fairly easy to run.

It was the sub-sub-routines that I found to be too much.
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