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Panzer: Game Expansion Set, Nr 4 – France 1940» Forums » Strategy

Subject: French tanks are tough nuts to crack rss

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eric magill
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Any advice? Panzer 2c doesn’t stand a chance against h35 or s35. They can be useful to suppress them though with gp fire. Panzer 3f is going to have hard time even at point blank range against those adversaries with its penetration of 8 at point blank. Panzer 4d has some decent penetration against those tanks. If you spread out that helps as radioless tanks have command range 0 and their platoon can only target one hex. The French tanks even have good rear turret armor. Rear hull is weaker but you have to get to that firing position first and hope you don’t hit the turret. Smoke would be useful as French generally have to stack together to get anything done as they are radioless. But only panzer 4 fires smoke. If you use the -1 ap modifier for limited crew that helps. What am I missing?
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Brian McCue
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I haven't played the game yet but people have long said that the defeat of the French in 1940 was not due to tank-for-tank inferiority.

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Florent Loyer
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I will get the game saturday but don't forget the optional Variable AP penetration, with luck you get +1 or +2 !!!...but sometimes -1 or -2 but you have quick fire with up to 2 shots.
 
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eric magill
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Variable penetration has been a mixed blessing at best for me. If you play with buttoned up rules you can at least damage the French beasts with the lighter German tanks with an effective gp result when they are open. Maybe get lucky and they bail? But since the French tanks have to share same command there’s probably little reason not to button them up. They will all be firing at same hex anyways so not much reason for better spotting by being open. They can just point turret at whatever they want to see during pivot turret step of turn and use fire command following turn.
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Florent Loyer
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The french are one man turrets thus if they are open turrets this is really early.

I think that i will do some houserules for some cases, for example for what you said about shooting in the same hex, with one man turrets and no radio or basic radio every commander is shooting at what he is seeing.
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The same is true for damage, the rule indicates that if damaged ( no radio), you have all the platoon moving at the minimum damage speed but this is not the experience of the french crews, their stories is that they didn't know that their friends were immobilized or destroyed they saw it when destroyed and coming back in the rear or when taken prisonner OR when their tank came back on the starting position, in this case they crossed wrecks or immobilised tank and didn't know about it.

These tank commanders received ammunition from crew then put it in the breech, locked it, aimed and fired while trying to have an idea about what happened and about my reading i saw no real cooperation.

I can't wait to be saturday.
 
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Brian McCue
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Are there any books by men who were tankers in France (1940), like the ones by Commonwealth tankers (Crisp, Joly) in North Africa?

(French would be OK. In fact, it would be good for me.)
 
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Florent Loyer
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Not much, they were written between 40-47, after the war the glory was for the Free French and the resistance and all the 40 spring was a shame, the worst defeat in the history of France.

But in the last 20 years and especially 10 years there is at last more and more books written + the GBM mag publishes BcC histories, the current issue 127 is about 41 BCC up to the eve of Stonne, next issue end of march will have Stonne .

Authors Jean Yves Mary have Vol 1 and 2 "Le Corridor des Panzers " 10-21 may.( in 2009 and 2011)

Also he wrote " Le carroussel des Panzers " (2012 and 2014) for the June operations in 2 Vol.

Erik Barbanson wrote about 1, 2 and 3 DLM.
Jean Robert Gorce (2016) wrote about the 1st DCR and especially the Battle of Flavion may 15.

Stéphane Bonnaud wrote in 2002 about the 15 BCC "B1 bis au combat"

and recently "Chars D2 au combat" 2015.

Plenty of scenarios are thus possible and hopefully the Panzer pusher will have D1, D2 and FCM 36 available for more possibilities.
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Brian McCue
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Merci bien!
 
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eric magill
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Have fun! Check me on my rules and let me know if it sounds like I am doing anything wrong.
 
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eric magill
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Correction panzer 2c can’t even damage with gp unless adjacent and French tank open as panzer 2c is “small arms”
 
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Fernando Sola Ramos
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fishboy73 wrote:
Any advice? Panzer 2c doesn’t stand a chance against h35 or s35. They can be useful to suppress them though with gp fire. Panzer 3f is going to have hard time even at point blank range against those adversaries with its penetration of 8 at point blank. Panzer 4d has some decent penetration against those tanks. If you spread out that helps as radioless tanks have command range 0 and their platoon can only target one hex. The French tanks even have good rear turret armor. Rear hull is weaker but you have to get to that firing position first and hope you don’t hit the turret. Smoke would be useful as French generally have to stack together to get anything done as they are radioless. But only panzer 4 fires smoke. If you use the -1 ap modifier for limited crew that helps. What am I missing?
If you use just Basic rules, it is really difficult to deal with the French tanks. It is when you start to use Advanced and some Optional rules that the game really shows how things worked in real life.

First, spread your units. The French usually gets a lower Grade rating, so they have to stay closer and share commands. Use this to your advantage. Approach the French tanks from various directions and flank.

Second, use command span. It allows you to spread AND move. The French tanks have to remain grouped if they want to move.

Third, radioless and one-man turrets. These rules limit the tactical flexibility of the French tanks.

Fourth, if you use the above rules, the French tanks must be in the same hex most of the time. If you achieve a BU result, all the remaining tanks in the hex become automatically Suppressed.

Fifth, use Morale rules. The French companies usually are at a lower morale level than the German formations (with some exceptions), so they reach their CP point earlier and break most of the time.

Finally, if you use variable AP penetration your chances of penetration improve (although you can get the opposite results too).
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eric magill
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I remember that rule about brew up from somewhere but couldn’t find it today.
 
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Fernando Sola Ramos
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fishboy73 wrote:
I remember that rule about brew up from somewhere but couldn’t find it today.
Rule 6.5.2.5 AP Damage & Effects

BU – Brew Up

In addition to the effects outlined in the Basic Game, any passenger
units are subject to Bailing Out.
When a vehicle suffers a brew up result, all friendly ground units
in the same hex are immediately Suppressed. It does not apply
to passengers under cover (see 6.5.4.2.3).


Hope it helps.
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Brian McCue
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After finding out how important BUs can be, I started to wonder: can I shoot at a KO'd wreck in the hope of making it Brew Up?

I note that late-war German doctrine had them shoot at wrecks until they caught fire, albeit for reasons other than waning the BU modifiers.
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Fernando Sola Ramos
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Yes, you can.
 
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