Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Cryptid» Forums » Strategy

Subject: How to gain advantages: asymmetric information and searches rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mark D

California
msg tools
Avatar

In Cryptid, most information is symmetric. The only asymmetric information is your clue. You know your rule and you know that the other players don't have your rule (the rules state that player's rule is unique).

Once your rule is revealed to all players, you are at a disadvantage. You want other players to know as little about your rule as possible. Thus you want to have the fewest questions asked of you. Perhaps you can strategist a way to get the fewest questions asked of you. I'm not sure how to do that (I like asking the person to my right questions, as his turn is furthest away if he want to ask a retaliatory question); however, you can get the most out of your questions, and that is what I will be focusing on.



On your turn you want to reveal as little as possible about your own rule and as much as possible about your opponents' rules.

The typical "best turn" eliminates half of your opponent's options. You can do a little better than this. Every turn you have the potential to reveal that your opponents don't have your rule. You want to avoid this. In order to avoid this, you may ask a question that when answered "yes" does not reveal the information about your rule and reveals about 30% (higher in 3 player games, lower in 5) of your opponent's missing information. This way, you gain similar advantages whether your opponent says "yes" or "no". If your opponent says no, you have to place a cube on the board and you lose part of your advantage, being the only one who knows that they don't have your rule (other than them of course), but that opponent losing 70% of his hidden information (i.e. you narrow down his possible rules by 70%).

Sometimes you can gain a larger advantage by searching than by questioning. Searching (without having a good guess at the solution) is best when ALL of the following criteria have been met:

1. Other players can deduce that no one else has your rule.

2. There is a space on the board where you may place a cube without revealing any information about your rule

3. There is a space on the board where you may place a disk without revealing any information about your rule

4. This space (3) coincides with a space that the player to your left is likely, but not certain to say yes to (50%-90%) and it is a useful space to question the player to his left as well.

Example: you've narrowed the player to your left's options down to 3 possible rules and the player to his left's down to 2 rules. You find a space that doesn't reveal any information about yourself when you place a disk there and an answer of "yes" from the player to your left eliminates 1 of the 3 rules (an answer of "no" would reveal his rule) and either answer "yes" or "no" from the player to his left will eliminate one of the remaining possible rules. Either way you learn a rule, and you have a chance of learning another piece of information. You end up placing a disk and a cube, but it is late enough in the game that you found places to put them without revealing any information about yourself.

In summary:

Ask questions that are most likely yes (so you don't have to place cubes) that you would have to place a disk on if asked about (so that others don't learn what you know...others don't have your rule).

When you've lost that advantage (others not knowing that no one else has your rule), and there are appropriate places for searching (and placing "punishment" cubes), search: you can learn more about all of your opponents potentially.


[Note: I've omitted talking about more obvious strategies such as deduction, and considering a few possible rule sets to see if they define a unique tile on the board. Here I focused solely on actions you can take on your turn, rather than the behind the scenes deduction.]

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Griffiths
United Kingdom
Aylesbury
Buckinghamshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
amdir wrote:

2. There is a space on the board where you may place a cube without revealing any information about your rule

3. There is a space on the board where you may place a disk without revealing any information about your rule

Give the way the game map distributes stuff, I didn't think it was possible to place something and reveal nothing. i.e. your cube/disk is always going to be on a new spot, and that spot has a different set of conditions to any of your other cubes in terms of what terrain it's on and distances to terrain/structures/wildlife.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amanda Zimmer
United States
Decatur
GA
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
amdir wrote:
Sometimes you can gain a larger advantage by searching than by questioning. Searching (without having a good guess at the solution) is best when ALL of the following criteria have been met:

2. There is a space on the board where you may place a cube without revealing any information about your rule
(emphasis is mine)

It is not possible to Search a space where you can place a cube, because per the rules, you MUST immediately place a disc on the space you are declaring SEARCH.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrea Gottardi
Italy
Lavis
Trento
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Poddster wrote:
amdir wrote:

2. There is a space on the board where you may place a cube without revealing any information about your rule

3. There is a space on the board where you may place a disk without revealing any information about your rule

Give the way the game map distributes stuff, I didn't think it was possible to place something and reveal nothing. i.e. your cube/disk is always going to be on a new spot, and that spot has a different set of conditions to any of your other cubes in terms of what terrain it's on and distances to terrain/structures/wildlife.

It's impossible to reveal nothing, but it's definitely feasible to reveal very little about your clue.

At least, in the games I played, there always was one or more corners filled with cubes.

Adding one more to that zone I think does not add relevant information about my clue to opponents.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clive Jones

Cambridgeshire, UK
msg tools
mb
iamzimmer wrote:
amdir wrote:
Sometimes you can gain a larger advantage by searching than by questioning. Searching (without having a good guess at the solution) is best when ALL of the following criteria have been met:

2. There is a space on the board where you may place a cube without revealing any information about your rule
(emphasis is mine)

It is not possible to Search a space where you can place a cube, because per the rules, you MUST immediately place a disc on the space you are declaring SEARCH.
I think OP is taking into account that, when you search, you will either win or have to place a cube. You need to consider where you might put that cube.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian
msg tools
iamzimmer wrote:
It is not possible to Search a space where you can place a cube, because per the rules, you MUST immediately place a disc on the space you are declaring SEARCH.
You're absolutely right. You cannot search in a space that does not fit your clue criteria.

However, I don't think that was the point that he's trying to make.

I think that the reason that he wants the #2 criteria met (a safe space to put a cube) is because you'll have to place down a cube somewhere once your search fails.

-------------------------
[EDIT: Oops! Looks like Clive beat me to the punch shake]
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian
msg tools
Poddster wrote:
Give the way the game map distributes stuff, I didn't think it was possible to place something and reveal nothing. i.e. your cube/disk is always going to be on a new spot, and that spot has a different set of conditions to any of your other cubes in terms of what terrain it's on and distances to terrain/structures/wildlife.
It is possible to give what amounts to "no new information". If, based of previous information, my opponents know that my clue cannot be in forest, near water, nor near any animal territory, then I probably want to place a club in a spot that would ONLY fit those criteria (but not necessarily all of them). That way, my opponents can't make any new deductions.

That being said, there is an argument to be made about giving away "intangible information". "Why did my opponent place the cube in that 'useless' spot instead of that other 'useless' spot? Could it be that the other spot would not have been so 'useless' after all?" And down and down we go, down the rabbit hole.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls