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Subject: The Green New Deal rss

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J
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Do we have a thread on this already? [PDF]

It's not feasible to do all that in 10 years and even attempting it would cost SO MUCH MONEY. AOC does the whole "it will pay for itself with economic growth" thing shake
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Andre
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I think she knows it's not going to be law any time soon, but she is building the framework to get people on board (namely, other politicians that want to ride the wave at the moment, and possibly high energy backers with deep pockets). I have no doubt that some of the stuff she espouses, will continue to increase in influence, or at least be discussed, in the halls of government.

The Repubs are so afraid of her, it's actually amusing to watch.

The only thing she has to worry about, is being tossed out of Congress by her electorate, but she does not seem to fear that at the moment. And some of her ideas, may actually get pretty good traction with her constituents. She might be hitting on a recipe for a long career in Congress, give (or attempt to give) the people what they want, and raise hell doing it. It will definitely be interesting to watch the path of her career.
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Burke Martin
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Does it matter? This is DOA anyway so why not swing for a home run...
 
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Mike Stiles
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brkmrtn wrote:
Does it matter? This is DOA anyway so why not swing for a home run...
Because you're wasting time and political capital that could be spent on a thing that could work.
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Xander Fulton
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windsagio wrote:
brkmrtn wrote:
Does it matter? This is DOA anyway so why not swing for a home run...
Because you're wasting time and political capital that could be spent on a thing that could work.
What would that BE, with this Senate and President?

100% coal and oil from Trump-friendly Saudi companies??

Not sure her constituents would go for that...
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Ken
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windsagio wrote:
brkmrtn wrote:
Does it matter? This is DOA anyway so why not swing for a home run...
Because you're wasting time and political capital that could be spent on a thing that could work.
I don't think anyone's going to spend any political capital on this. It's an effort to shift the conversation and it's working. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see pieces of this start to appear in stump speeches as we approach 2020.
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mortego
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Her constituants are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York%27s_14th_congressiona...
 
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Andre
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
Which means, as long as she doesn't piss off Hispanics, she will have a long career in Congress.

I have no doubt some of this HAS to be addressed by the Dems in 2020, if nothing more than talking about it, and putting some of it on their platform.
 
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Clyde W
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jmilum wrote:
Do we have a thread on this already? [PDF]

It's not feasible to do all that in 10 years and even attempting it would cost SO MUCH MONEY. AOC does the whole "it will pay for itself with economic growth" thing shake
How much money will it cost us when Miami is under water in 2040?
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Carl Parsons
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To me, the way politics should operate (at least congress) is for both sides to present what they want, then they whittle away at both wishlists until something obtainable and acceptable to both sides is arrived at. This is one side's wishlist. I think this is good politicking.
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Mike Stiles
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perfalbion wrote:
windsagio wrote:
brkmrtn wrote:
Does it matter? This is DOA anyway so why not swing for a home run...
Because you're wasting time and political capital that could be spent on a thing that could work.
I don't think anyone's going to spend any political capital on this. It's an effort to shift the conversation and it's working. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see pieces of this start to appear in stump speeches as we approach 2020.
I'd agree, but the question implied "Why not try for this?"

That said, 'lets suggest something just to move the conversation with no plan for implementation' has always rubbed me wrong.
 
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Ken
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windsagio wrote:
That said, 'lets suggest something just to move the conversation with no plan for implementation' has always rubbed me wrong.
It is a pretty effective way to smooth the way for real proposals in the future. Whether it's the fear factor ("As long as it's not that lunacy!") or just getting people thinking about it, it works.

If AOC is playing the long game, she's doing it quite well.
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J
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clydeiii wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Do we have a thread on this already? [PDF]

It's not feasible to do all that in 10 years and even attempting it would cost SO MUCH MONEY. AOC does the whole "it will pay for itself with economic growth" thing shake
How much money will it cost us when Miami is under water in 2040?
Unknown but for the 10 year estimated cost of this deal, you could give everyone in the Miami metro area about $10 million to move.
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Shawn Fox
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batman wrote:
To me, the way politics should operate (at least congress) is for both sides to present what they want, then they whittle away at both wishlists until something obtainable and acceptable to both sides is arrived at. This is one side's wishlist. I think this is good politicking.
That is great in theory and I sure wish that is the way politics worked today in the US, but sadly it does not. Today the Democrats just say no to anything the Republicans want and the Republicans just say no to anything the Democrats want, so pretty much nothing happens until the entire government shuts down and both sides are forced to at least agree that we are better off continuing along as things are rather than having the entire country fall into anarchy.
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Shawn Fox
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As far as a "green new deal" goes, in my opinion the best way forward is to just tax CO2 emissions, and don't do it in a half assed way. If gasoline cost $10/gallon and coal was priced so high no one would use it at all, the problem would sort itself out without the government having to dictate how the problem gets solved.

Obviously this has to be phased in over a 10 to 20 year timeframe so everyone sees it coming and can make their purchase decisions accordingly. What I absolutely hate about many liberals is their insistence on creating an extremely complex set of regulations (ie, cars have to get X miles per gallon by 2025) rather than just making bad things expensive and letting the free market find the best solution to avoid the bad thing.

Government should never dictate the solution to a problem.
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Brian Baird
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batman wrote:
To me, the way politics should operate (at least congress) is for both sides to present what they want, then they whittle away at both wishlists until something obtainable and acceptable to both sides is arrived at. This is one side's wishlist. I think this is good politicking.
It's not even "one side's wishlist", it's "some people on one side's wishlist".

I appreciate their intent, I'm on their side generally, but the the goals of it are so broad sweeping, with, purposefully, no specifics behind it, that it's meaningless.

I can't be for or against it, because there's nothing real to choose sides on.
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Carl Parsons
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fenners wrote:
batman wrote:
To me, the way politics should operate (at least congress) is for both sides to present what they want, then they whittle away at both wishlists until something obtainable and acceptable to both sides is arrived at. This is one side's wishlist. I think this is good politicking.
It's not even "one side's wishlist", it's "some people on one side's wishlist".

I appreciate their intent, I'm on their side generally, but the the goals of it are so broad sweeping, with, purposefully, no specifics behind it, that it's meaningless.

I can't be for or against it, because there's nothing real to choose sides on.
I agree things are non specific but there's plenty enough there to be for or against. For example.

Quote:
...meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources, ...
This is a highly divisive point before you even get into the details. I had a coworker already ranting about it. If enough people are against it then you never have the opportunity to discuss the details.

Yes, there are some hefty logistic hurdles to this, maybe some that are insurmountable but I think this is the ideal we should strive for. We need to start supporting our long term goals or risk seeing them never happen.
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Christopher Dearlove
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windsagio wrote:
brkmrtn wrote:
Does it matter? This is DOA anyway so why not swing for a home run...
Because you're wasting time and political capital that could be spent on a thing that could work.
Could work in the sense of could pass congress and be funded to happen, or could work in the sense of would actually have a large enough effect to really achieve anything? Is there anything at all that ticks both boxes?
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Christopher Dearlove
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jmilum wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Do we have a thread on this already? [PDF]

It's not feasible to do all that in 10 years and even attempting it would cost SO MUCH MONEY. AOC does the whole "it will pay for itself with economic growth" thing shake
How much money will it cost us when Miami is under water in 2040?
Unknown but for the 10 year estimated cost of this deal, you could give everyone in the Miami metro area about $10 million to move.
If it were just Miami that might make short term sense. Of course it isn't even remotely just Miami.
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Repub area easier to just do nothing or let them raise taxes to fund protective measures after all no such thing as climate change so that water obviously can't be a problem.
 
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Seth Iniguez
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sfox wrote:
As far as a "green new deal" goes, in my opinion the best way forward is to just tax CO2 emissions, and don't do it in a half assed way. If gasoline cost $10/gallon and coal was priced so high no one would use it at all, the problem would sort itself out without the government having to dictate how the problem gets solved.

Obviously this has to be phased in over a 10 to 20 year timeframe so everyone sees it coming and can make their purchase decisions accordingly. What I absolutely hate about many liberals is their insistence on creating an extremely complex set of regulations (ie, cars have to get X miles per gallon by 2025) rather than just making bad things expensive and letting the free market find the best solution to avoid the bad thing.

Government should never dictate the solution to a problem.
If the problem is theoretically an existential threat to our species, I think we may NEED the government to step in to solve it.

If a huge meteor is headed to destroy the earth, does the government incentivize a solution and let the free market sort it out?
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Mike Parker
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Remember, we can't just save the US - China is the world's biggest polluter, so we also need to add in the cost of the war to take them over.
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Trey Chambers
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I'm a big AOC fan, but a more practical plan would have done a lot more for her and the movement than some of the pie-in-the-sky stuff in that bill.
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Oliver Dienz
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Fake Mike wrote:
Remember, we can't just save the US - China is the world's biggest polluter, so we also need to add in the cost of the war to take them over.
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Mike Parker
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odie73 wrote:
Fake Mike wrote:
Remember, we can't just save the US - China is the world's biggest polluter, so we also need to add in the cost of the war to take them over.
Per country, not per capita.
 
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