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Iwari» Forums » General

Subject: Yellow and orange - possiblity of confusion? rss

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As expected this game looks stunning already. I do however have a minor early concern about the the tent colors - my fear is the yellow and orange may end up looking too similar if not careful. My girlfriend and I just played a tile game this past weekend which we loved but two of the colors - light violet and light pink - were so close together that we had to really pay close attention to not confuse them. Her folks would have had a real issue with that game for that reason. So I hope these colors end up being easy to differentiate. It shouldn't be a problem as long as the colors are vivid enough.

To highlight this issue, there's a comment under the thread "boards and cards" where somebody got confused between the yellow and orange:

"nvm, I thought the orange had different symbols, but it was yellow and I couldn't tell with my screen."

Just something to keep in mind.
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Brad103
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Have you checked out the Tent forum post? https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2145520/iwari-tribes-and-te...

The tents are have unique artwork and are all unique shapes. I don't think there's any issue with the Tent blocks themselves because of this.

The board (to me) looks different enough with the yellow/orange, and the symbols are there.

The Yellow/Orange cards also have the symbols, but each other card has quite contrasting colors on the artwork as well, where the Yellow/Orange cards look pretty similar (the ground at least). These may not be the final version yet either so not worried about it yet.

I am colorblind cool
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Gláucio Reis
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China had some slight confusion between orange and red cards with new players, but except for some kind of color blindness, I can't see how anyone would confuse yellow and orange. I haven't seen any game where that was a problem.
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Braffe wrote:
Have you checked out the Tent forum post? https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2145520/iwari-tribes-and-te...

The tents are have unique artwork and are all unique shapes. I don't think there's any issue with the Tent blocks themselves because of this.

The board (to me) looks different enough with the yellow/orange, and the symbols are there.

The Yellow/Orange cards also have the symbols, but each other card has quite contrasting colors on the artwork as well, where the Yellow/Orange cards look pretty similar (the ground at least). These may not be the final version yet either so not worried about it yet.

I am colorblind cool
I hadn't noticed the unique shape and artwork for each tent. Yeah, that would pretty much eliminate any issue with the colors.
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W BGG
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I would change orange (similar to red and yellow)for purple.
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Daniel Drickman
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Do not touch my orange!
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James
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I'd just leave it as is and let the designers do their thing.
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With all due respect to game designers, designers do at times make mistakes, because they are people, and people make mistakes. They already changed one aspect of the scoring for this game, possibly in part due to feedback. There's nothing wrong with giving constructive feedback. The designers can either consider it, or not.

As I mentioned, the designers of the other game I referred to obviously made a mistake, as several people and reviews mentioned the issue with the color choices they made. My girlfriend specifically said she wouldn't buy a copy for her folks due to the colors being too close for their older eyes. In that game, the only other identifier besides color was the ring of flowers around the pieces, which were also very similar, to the point where the pieces are easily confused at first glance.

As pointed out by Brad103 above, the tents in this game have several design elements created to help differentiate between them, which I had originally overlooked, so it looks like they have already thought about how to make each tent unique.
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Warxky wrote:
I would change orange (similar to red and yellow)for purple.
Personally, I do feel that red, orange and yellow can be awfully similar, especially depending on the tones. And purple is a nice color. It was the first thing I thought of as an alternate consideration to avoid confusion. But perhaps they want to keep the colors more "earthy". At any rate with the other design elements it should help a lot to avoid confusion.
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I will mention that I showed the images to my girlfriend today to get her opinion on the colors of the tents/board. Looking at this image:



She immediately said the large orange area to the left could be a problem, with both yellow and orange tents placed on the orange area. In that image, those two colors are very close and hard to differentiate against the orange part of the board. The red and green tents are easy to spot instantly and tell apart. The orange and yellow - not nearly as easy to differentiate upon first glance. Her point of view was that those tents will be small, and looking down on them, the shapes may not be immediately noticeable when the colors are so close. I tend to agree a bit honestly. The first thing your eyes will see are the tent's colors against the board sections (obviously color-blind players have that additional challenge but obviously color has to be considered for the many players that don't have that issue). At first glance at that image, you can instantly spot the blue and yellow tents on the red spot, the red and yellow on the blue and green spots, etc., but those yellow and orange tents on the orange spot are awfully easy to confuse, requiring you too look a bit closer to identify the shape and markings. That could lead to mistakes being made during play if it's easy to overlook a piece on the board.

I think we all, including the designers, want to see this game be the best it can be. And of course I trust the designers to consider all this. Still, there are sometimes color choices made in games that prove to be problematic once released. So I'm just throwing this out there. The board looks very nice. So do the tents. But I do think when put together, there's room for some confusion as they are currently being shown off in images.
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CardBoard Bear

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I'm usually quite sensitive to color and contrast. I think the yellow and orange look sufficiently distinct. of course I'm judging from a picture and not from a real board. there already is a purplish color on the board (though I guess that's earthy rust red), so I don't think purple would be a good alternative. I also love yellow and orange and I'm glad they are using both. I'm also glad they are not using primary colors and it's nice to see a different palette used.

it's true that the yellow and orange are the 2 colors that are most similar to each other, here. it's also true that sometimes designers make mistakes using poor contrast. right now I think it looks fine (also beautiful). if they are indeed a bit too similar in real life, as simple solution would be to make the yellow slightly brighter (more saturated?) and a bit lighter in shade - slightly closer to lemon but still 'earthy'
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Y P
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Yellow vs. orange and orange vs. red are both possible areas of concern. It's not just differentiating between game pieces of different colors which can be hard enough depending on lighting conditions, but also color matching between cards and pieces of the same color. As an example, Reef has red pieces while the cards that tell you to use those pieces depict them in a more orange hue. Not a usability problem for Reef since there aren't orange pieces, but you can see how a similar situation would be problematic for Iwari. When you have colors that are as close together as the ones in Iwari you need spot-on matching of all components, and even then if the colors aren't differentiated enough in the first place then no amount of matching consistency will fully prevent confusion. Why tempt fate? The game wouldn't be any worse if they changed orange to something that can't be confused for 2 other colors, or if they're determined to keep orange then make it a touch darker/redder and change red to something else.

Just my $0.02.
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Good point. We know there can be pretty big inconsistencies with printing and manufacturing. You may design them one way but they come out a bit different than you were hoping. As you said, why tempt fate? I'm not saying they should go with gaudy bright colors of course. Just that they should keep this in consideration.

The designer of the game I referred to in my first post in this thread posted this the other day when I posted some thoughts on the game and the color issues we ran into with it:

"I do regret that the colors of the flowers came out a bit closer than we were expecting, though our colorblind testers were able to distinguish the flowers by shape. In the next printing we'll try and change the tint to improve color separation."

So yeah, you may design the game with certain colors in mind, but keep in mind that printing variances can factor in and cause issues with colors that are too similar.
 
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About the possibility of confusion with the colors, here's my copy of the retail edition of Tao Long (from Thundergryph) with the pieces unpunched. Note how close red and orange are - This is my concern.



 
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xines xin
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I share the general opinion that yellow and orange are too similar. When I play, I want to concentrate on the game and pay attention in differentiating both colors. That makes it heavy.
In the letters although there are different symbols the colors are very similar, it is not comfortable.
Although the tents have different shapes, not even the yellow and the orange are the most different! Both are rounded and curved shapes ... If at least they were squared or triangular like the red one...
The purple color is not a solution because in this game the colors represent elements are connected with natural elements. And purple can not be associated with anything natural.
I think the solution is to increase the contrast between yellow and orange, make them differ much better in pieces and cards, and vary the shape of their tents, also short and confusing both.
Hope thundergryph listens our pledges. It can made buy the game or not.
 
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Gláucio Reis
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xines wrote:
I share the general opinion that yellow and orange are too similar.
A vocal minority is not the same thing as general opinion.
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