Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Gloomhaven» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Scoundrel Early Enhancements rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I just hit level 3 and am trying to make some decisions on which enhancements to add to my cards. I'm playing the class mostly from a positioning standpoint, focusing on getting extra damage from hitting minions next to my brute ally. So far I have the following two items that are likely relevant:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Horned Helm and Ring of Skulls

I feel like the most optimal and cost-efficient way to go about it is first to upgrade my 3 move actions into 4 move (Sinister Opportunity and Duelist's Advance) due to the synergy with positioning and the spoiler item. I've also thought to do the same (when we hit 3 prosperity) for Special Mixture's bottom but I'm worried that I won't be taking the card that often. Ideally, I would like to eventually infuse dark for synergy with a later card but that can be something down the road. I've also read that putting jump on one of the cards is worth it but I might be hesitant to do that if just picking up the jump boots is more cost efficient and flexible. I may also toss an attack boost onto Duelist's Advance but I was also contemplating that as my dark infusion card. Any thoughts?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael ray
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm against the enhancing dark idea, but others like it. I think you're better served using a minor mana potion, or the random item (if you can get it)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Wand of Darkness


I think jumps are nice to have. It doesn't matter if you have a move 5 if the path is blocked by monsters/traps. Having a jump always comes in handy.

Whenever I retire a character and don't have a specific enhancement in mind, I just toss a jump on any move 4/5's they have at lvl1.

Another thing to keep in mind is cost. You're talking a decent amount of money, esp. for low levels. Adding a +1 move to duelist advance is 80 gold.

Another, another thing to keep in mind is: Do you want to make OK cards good, or good cards great? ie: is it better for your group to turn a move 3 into a move 4, or a move 5 into a move 6?

Generally speaking, I stay away from enhancing lost cards, and want to enhance cards that I think:
Will almost always be brought to a scenario
Will be used at least once thru each rest cycle

EDIT: Forgot to respond to these directly
Quote:
I've also read that putting jump on one of the cards is worth it but I might be hesitant to do that if just picking up the jump boots is more cost efficient and flexible.
There is better footwear out there if you have ways to jump. The boots that add +2 to move for example, or the boots that play with initiative value, which as a scoundrel you can use to save yourself from enemies going super early before you, or late and not moving into the rage you need to reach them.

Quote:
I may also toss an attack boost onto Duelist's Advance but I was also contemplating that as my dark infusion card. Any thoughts?
If you've already added move to Duelist's Advance, this gets even more expensive. Adding an enhancement to an ability that is already enhanced is 75 extra. You'd be looking at 80 for the move enhancement and then 175 for the attack enhancement due to it being your second enhancement. (or 225 for the dark)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C
United States
Muscatine
Iowa
flag msg tools
My experience has been that having Boots of Jumping is less useful than Boots of Striding + one move card with Jump enhancement on it. There aren't that many times that I NEED to jump, and many more times that I wish I had an extra 2 movement.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
vitus979 wrote:
My experience has been that having Boots of Jumping is less useful than Boots of Striding + one move card with Jump enhancement on it. There aren't that many times that I NEED to jump, and many more times that I wish I had an extra 2 movement.
Good to know. I have neither and actually unfortunately won't have access to boots of striding because both our Mindthief and Brute decided to pick them up. Would it then be worthwhile to get the jumping boots or is it still not a good idea?

squegeeboo wrote:
I'm against the enhancing dark idea, but others like it. I think you're better served using a minor mana potion, or the random item (if you can get it)

I think jumps are nice to have. It doesn't matter if you have a move 5 if the path is blocked by monsters/traps. Having a jump always comes in handy.

Generally speaking, I stay away from enhancing lost cards, and want to enhance cards that I think:
Will almost always be brought to a scenario
Will be used at least once thru each rest cycle

Adding an enhancement to an ability that is already enhanced is 75 extra. You'd be looking at 80 for the move enhancement and then 175 for the attack enhancement due to it being your second enhancement. (or 225 for the dark)
Makes sense! I can't really access the mana potions yet due to already having two items (spoiler item and stamina potion which are both absolutely crucial to me) in that slot and only being level 3 but perhaps it would be worthwhile when I hit level 5. I likely will add jump to a few of my big moves but I don't really have any interest in making a move 5 into a 6 over a 3 into a 4. I've locked down which cards I intend to use for the rest of the campaign and most of the time I find myself wishing my move 3's were move 4's instead of wishing my 5's were 6's. I definitely have been weighing the cost of putting dark on there as it is super pricey but I'm hoping that by the time I hit level 7, I'll be more free to spend money on big purchases, but perhaps there will be other stuff that is more important.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael ray
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
WhatAChamp wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
My experience has been that having Boots of Jumping is less useful than Boots of Striding + one move card with Jump enhancement on it. There aren't that many times that I NEED to jump, and many more times that I wish I had an extra 2 movement.
Good to know. I have neither and actually unfortunately won't have access to boots of striding because both our Mindthief and Brute decided to pick them up. Would it then be worthwhile to get the jumping boots or is it still not a good idea?

squegeeboo wrote:
I'm against the enhancing dark idea, but others like it. I think you're better served using a minor mana potion, or the random item (if you can get it)

I think jumps are nice to have. It doesn't matter if you have a move 5 if the path is blocked by monsters/traps. Having a jump always comes in handy.

Generally speaking, I stay away from enhancing lost cards, and want to enhance cards that I think:
Will almost always be brought to a scenario
Will be used at least once thru each rest cycle

Adding an enhancement to an ability that is already enhanced is 75 extra. You'd be looking at 80 for the move enhancement and then 175 for the attack enhancement due to it being your second enhancement. (or 225 for the dark)
Makes sense! I can't really access the mana potions yet due to already having two items (spoiler item and stamina potion which are both absolutely crucial to me) in that slot and only being level 3 but perhaps it would be worthwhile when I hit level 5. I likely will add jump to a few of my big moves but I don't really have any interest in making a move 5 into a 6 over a 3 into a 4. I've locked down which cards I intend to use for the rest of the campaign and most of the time I find myself wishing my move 3's were move 4's instead of wishing my 5's were 6's. I definitely have been weighing the cost of putting dark on there as it is super pricey but I'm hoping that by the time I hit level 7, I'll be more free to spend money on big purchases, but perhaps there will be other stuff that is more important.
Do you have a best guess on how long it'll be before you retire? If you're just sitting on money for when you hit lvl7, but you'll retire at lvl5 the only reason to sit on the money is for big enhancements at retirement vs enhancements you can use right away. It's yet another thing to consider.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
squegeeboo wrote:
Do you have a best guess on how long it'll be before you retire? If you're just sitting on money for when you hit lvl7, but you'll retire at lvl5 the only reason to sit on the money is for big enhancements at retirement vs enhancements you can use right away. It's yet another thing to consider.
Yep! My personal quest is entirely controllable and based upon money!

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Donating to the temple in Gloomhaven


Part of me would like to retire a bit earlier on to help the Gloomhaven prosperity along and maybe try out a new class but I also really enjoy Scoundrel. I'm thinking that perhaps I may just blow my money at the end on enhancements for some earlier cards and then reroll another scoundrel and save up for later enhancements. It's either that or make a monster level 9 scoundrel that chunks everything with Long Con...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joseph Bloom

Florida
msg tools
Scoundrel here. First character and first play through, so take that into consideration.

We opened enhancements when I was level 5 and Gloomhaven was Prosperity 2.

Our group is a Brute, Mindthief, and Scoundrel.


I also use the
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Horned Helm
.

My first enhancement was a +1 to the bottom move of Special Mixture AND adding a Bless to the top Heal. I've used this card in several scenarios since, and REALLY like it. The bottom is excellent in combat and the top is great for those turns when you've cleared the room and need to use a turn to gather by the door to the next room. Shoving Blesses into your deck never gets old.

My second card is a +1 to the top of Flanking Strike and adding Jump to the bottom move. (Still saving for the Jump.)

I'm undecided on my third card, but am currently leaning towards the +1 move to the top of Duelest's Advance.

That said, I've got a lot of Move 5 cards in my hand. I'm not sure if I really need to keep enhancing Moves.





1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren Nakamura
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
flag msg tools
http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
badge
Darren@destructoid.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've written a lot about Scoundrel enhancements I like, but I'll summarize here:

Jump on Flanking Strike (bottom), 50g: As discussed above, Jump movement is great. It's nice to have this so you don't have to rely on Winged Shoes being available.

Strengthen on Smoke Bomb (top), 50g: When you set up your Smoke Bomb hit, it feels very bad to draw a null on that. Adding Strengthen to yourself decreases those chances (to zero if you have no Curses or rolling modifiers in your deck). This is probably an enhancement that "feels" better than it actually is, but I still recommend it because you won't be taking up an enhancement slot, because...

Poison on Smoke Bomb (bottom), 75g: Poison is best when you can apply it before an attack, so it affects that attack. If you make a lot of use of Scoundrel's positioning, then this is a good one to have. Pull something into an adjacency bonus and poison it for a +1 on the attack you're about to hit it with.

+1 on Special Mixture (bottom), 30g: As you note, this allows your Scoundrel to basically deal a +2 on her next attack (+1 for Poison and +1 for Horned Helm). No setup required, and cheap as far as enhancements go.

+1 on Sinister Opportunity (bottom), 30g: Same as above, minus the Poison, plus maybe an adjacency bonus. Still cheap.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
JoeBinFL wrote:
Scoundrel here. First character and first play through, so take that into consideration.

Our group is a Brute, Mindthief, and Scoundrel.

My first enhancement was a +1 to the bottom move of Special Mixture AND adding a Bless to the top Heal. I've used this card in several scenarios since, and REALLY like it. The bottom is excellent in combat and the top is great for those turns when you've cleared the room and need to use a turn to gather by the door to the next room. Shoving Blesses into your deck never gets old.
This is excellent information since that is our exact party composition too. While Special Mixture doesn't appear to show up in a lot of the guides, I've made really good use of both the top and bottom, particularly since we don't really have any heals. I was thinking of putting bless on something but since the top is more reactive for me, I almost would prefer it on an action that I know I'll always use like an attack or a move.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Dexter345 wrote:
I've written a lot about Scoundrel enhancements I like, but I'll summarize here:

Jump on Flanking Strike (bottom), 50g: As discussed above, Jump movement is great. It's nice to have this so you don't have to rely on Winged Shoes being available.

Strengthen on Smoke Bomb (top), 50g: When you set up your Smoke Bomb hit, it feels very bad to draw a null on that. Adding Strengthen to yourself decreases those chances (to zero if you have no Curses or rolling modifiers in your deck). This is probably an enhancement that "feels" better than it actually is, but I still recommend it because you won't be taking up an enhancement slot, because...

Poison on Smoke Bomb (bottom), 75g: Poison is best when you can apply it before an attack, so it affects that attack. If you make a lot of use of Scoundrel's positioning, then this is a good one to have. Pull something into an adjacency bonus and poison it for a +1 on the attack you're about to hit it with.

+1 on Special Mixture (bottom), 30g: As you note, this allows your Scoundrel to basically deal a +2 on her next attack (+1 for Poison and +1 for Horned Helm). No setup required, and cheap as far as enhancements go.

+1 on Sinister Opportunity (bottom), 30g: Same as above, minus the Poison, plus maybe an adjacency bonus. Still cheap.
I'd love to see any threads where you've gone into detail more. I see that most of these are level 1. Have you mentioned any higher level ones? I know the price goes up but some of those cards are so cool. These all seem pretty much identical to what I would like to do (I mapped some out in a word document) but my part of me is wondering whether the pull with poison is worth it. My intention is to almost always use the pull with Visage of the Inevitable when I can (I know this won't always work out) so the poison isn't the most useful in that scenario. And while I enjoy using Smoke Bomb on bosses or the last minions for some big hits, I find myself losing it early on in long rests if there's no bosses as I like moving more than pulling outside of my opener. Regardless, I would love to read more of what you have said as I'm always looking for more advice!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren Nakamura
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
flag msg tools
http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
badge
Darren@destructoid.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
More in-depth: Ultimate Scoundrel Guide

If you're mostly using Smoke Bomb (bottom) to combo with Visage of the Inevitable, then perhaps putting a Dark infusion (100g) on it would be useful, to set up for a next-round Sinister Opportunity or Stick to the Shadows.

The other option on there is, of course to just add +1s to the Pull and the Range, so she can grab people from further away. That's expensive though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Dexter345 wrote:
More in-depth: Ultimate Scoundrel Guide

If you're mostly using Smoke Bomb (bottom) to combo with Visage of the Inevitable, then perhaps putting a Dark infusion (100g) on it would be useful, to set up for a next-round Sinister Opportunity or Stick to the Shadows.

The other option on there is, of course to just add +1s to the Pull and the Range, so she can grab people from further away. That's expensive though.
Ahh that's you! I've been using that guide extensively. Thank you for your amazing contribution. I may put Dark infusion on the smoke bomb pull but sometimes I find it hard to use the pull later in the game due to the fact that pulls must always move one tile closer (i.e. enemies behind obstacles, ally in front of me). I notice you generally run Smoke Bomb the whole game, do you find yourself using it regularly later on in the game as well?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren Nakamura
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
flag msg tools
http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
badge
Darren@destructoid.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah. I got my Scoundrel up to 7 before retiring her, and I used Smoke Bomb and Sinister Opportunity the whole time to aid in adjacency bonuses.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steven Sharp
United States
Millbury
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
WhatAChamp wrote:

I was thinking of putting bless on something but since the top is more reactive for me, I almost would prefer it on an action that I know I'll always use like an attack or a move.
You cannot add Bless (or Strengthen) to an attack or move. You can only add it to an ability that affects self or an ally (Heal, Strengthen, Invisibility, Bless, or granting Shield or Retaliate, are the only ones that come to mind). Move is specifically called out as not qualifying.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rasmus JN
Finland
flag msg tools
mb
sesharpma wrote:
WhatAChamp wrote:

I was thinking of putting bless on something but since the top is more reactive for me, I almost would prefer it on an action that I know I'll always use like an attack or a move.
You cannot add Bless (or Strengthen) to an attack or move. You can only add it to an ability that affects self or an ally (Heal, Strengthen, Invisibility, Bless, or granting Shield or Retaliate, are the only ones that come to mind). Move is specifically called out as not qualifying.
This.
Also, for your PQ
WhatAChamp wrote:
Yep! My personal quest is entirely controllable and based upon money!
make sure you start working on it right away, and then just stop before finishing. I remember reading about some guy with this same goal who just did no work on it at all, and then at some point realized he had to stick around for quite some time longer after starting to work on it in order to finish it off.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Travis Vandenberg
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
RazR wrote:
Also, for your PQ
WhatAChamp wrote:
Yep! My personal quest is entirely controllable and based upon money!
make sure you start working on it right away, and then just stop before finishing. I remember reading about some guy with this same goal who just did no work on it at all, and then at some point realized he had to stick around for quite some time longer after starting to work on it in order to finish it off.
Yeah I realized later than I can only really put Strengthen/Bless on my heal or invisible cards. In terms of the PQ, I've been making progress toward it but not very steadily. I have three out of twelve done. My most recent scenarios ended with me only having enough gold for the crucial items I needed. I envision I'll be doing this more often in the future.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls