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Subject: Italy-Trade Agreement rss

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banana
France
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So here's the rule about Italy-US Trade:

Quote:
While this agreement is in effect, and to avoid any penalty, the USA
must have enough convoy points in the sea areas from the USA to a
sea area adjacent to the Western Mediterranean sea area to transport
the resources and build point. Similarly, Italy may have enough
convoy points in the Western Mediterranean and the Italian coast sea
areas to transport the resources and build point. If during production
(see 13.6), Italy has met her obligation and the US has not met its
then:
• the USA loses the 3 resources, and does not get its promised
build point that turn, which Italy may use herself; and
• Italy must randomly remove 1 entry marker from the Ge/It entry
pool (returning it to the common entry pool). See 13.3.3 if there
aren’t any US entry markers to remove.
If Italy does not meet her obligation then both sides may use their
promised resources or build point themselves this turn.
Note that any emphasize on the words are verbatim from the rulebook.

My question: what happens if both sides have not met their obligations?

The way I read it, the two "dots" (loss of resource, losse of chit) are only triggered when the pre-requisite condition is met which is:
- US has not met its obligation
AND
- Italy has met its obligation.

That would mean if Italy has not met its obligation, then it does not matter what the US do, they won't loss the chit or the resources.

Per se, only the last sentence of the rules would apply "If Italy does not meet her obligation then both sides may use their promised resources or build point themselves this turn."

*************************

The question of "no one has met its obligation" is a bit easier on the US-Japanese trade rules.

Quote:
Until US entry option 31 is chosen, and to avoid any penalty, the USA
must have enough convoy points in the sea areas from the USA (and
the Philippines if they desire) to a sea area adjacent to the Japanese
Coast sea area, to transport the resources and build point. Similarly,
Japan must have enough convoy points in the Japanese Coast sea area
to transport the resources and build point. If during production (see
13.6) either side has not met this obligation:
• that side loses the resources and the build point that turn, and the
other side may use their promised resources or build point
themselves;
• if Japan was in default, the USA may add 2 entry markers to the
Japanese entry pool (from the common entry pool); and
• if the USA was in default, Japan must randomly remove 2 entry
markers from the Japanese entry pool (returning them to the
common entry pool). See 13.3.3 if there aren’t enough US entry
markers to remove.
If both sides has not met their obligation, they all lose their promise resources and build points.

But, then the order in which you add/remove entry chit is important isn't it? So who goes first? Japanese removal? Or US add?

That changes everything if there are not entry chit in the Asian pool, and the US add the chit first (which are then removed by Japan, thus nothing happens when it comes to entry pool)

I would say they do go first, following the dotted sequential order, right?
 
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Wifbert Boye
Canada
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If Italy or both sides fail to meet its CP conditions, both sides may use their promised resources or build point themselves this turn. That's all that happens.

The US loses an entry chit and 3 resources if Italy meets its conditions and the US does not.
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banana
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Thank you, that's what I think too.
Does not seem to be the interpretation on the yahoo group (since I was told it was me who was interpreting).
 
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Brian Jarvinen
United States
Michigan
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For a question like this one -

"But, then the order in which you add/remove entry chit is important isn't it? So who goes first? Japanese removal? Or US add?"

It is always helpful to remember the very first rule in the rulebook.


1.1 Rules
We have arranged these rules in sequence of play order.
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Bruce Jurin
United States
Great Neck
New York
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banania wrote:
Thank you, that's what I think too.
Does not seem to be the interpretation on the yahoo group (since I was told it was me who was interpreting).
That seems odd at least to me. What were they saying?
 
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banana
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Quote:
All of the above, i. e. net effect the US is penalized and Italy may use her BP.
Quote:
Both things happen.
Quote:
The only thing that happens is the loss of an entry chit
Basically, 3 different answers, all seem wrong to me.
(Barring the mean answers I got).

Next time, I'll directly ask here, I find BGG more friendly, especially Wendell, Bruce and Steven who have answer a lot of my questions before, always so nicely
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Herbert Gratz
Austria
Vienna
Unspecified
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Normally, they (Wndel et al.) also answer the Qs on Yahoo.
My twopence (although not necessary as the q.'s been answered correctly): US is only penalized if IT lives up to its obligations. Rules seem clear on this.
JP: I'd follow the sequence the events are listed in the rulebook. If that doesn't help (say e.g. conquest of countries if for some reason it is important which minor gets conquered first) one would follow initiative order. But this isn't the case here.
 
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Wifbert Boye
Canada
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About US and Japan (not that I've ever seen it happen, but) if both default then no chits are added or subtracted - it's simultaneous occurrence and thus it's a wash. +2 -2 = 0.
 
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