Nerfenstein aka GirlyGamer
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Hi everyone, I need advice. I'll try and be succinct. I backed a game on KS back in 2015 (Lobotomy). I'm still waiting on delivery. I'd asked for a refund after I saw it in a store in the US a couple of years ago for $80) and was told:

"Please note, that the backed amount wasn't the cost of the game, you contributed to Lobotomy's development and multiple production values."

So I didn't pay for the game (which obviously I thought I had, as with EVERY other game I've backed). After more back and forth I was then told I hadn't paid postage (which I thought I had), but if I did they'd send it straight out. So like a moron I sent them another $70 .. still nothing. I even got a lawyer friend to look into it at one point, but given the location even that was pointless due to differing laws in dif countries.

I've pretty much begged them to help me, via KS and also email and now they're not even responding. I'm now $210 out of pocket and gutted. I'm not made of money and the sheer stress this has caused me dealing with them... I'm just needing advice... because I no longer know what to do. I don't even want the game.. it's not like I could play it ever now without just feeling anger / upset.

I assume I should just.. say goodbye to that $210? But then I feel like TitanforgeGames just.. win and that they may treat future people with the same disregard and vileness they have me...

Help me BGG Kenobi.. you're my only hope cry
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Evgeny Ivanov
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I understand what you're going through but I'm afraid, yeah, you almost certainly lost the money. I've been scammed before (not on kickstarter though) and know the feeling.

After reading most recent comments on Lobotomy kickstarter campaign you're not alone, a lot of people got scammed there, so first of all you need to accept the reality of the situation. So to stop trying to reach the designers and to research the situation of being a victim of a scam on kicktarter are the next steps.

Only then, after seeing what options are available (is refund possible etc), you must to decide how far you're willing to go in trying to restore justice and what outcomes you can expect.

On a personal matter, you may see this as a part of your growth as a person. Accept, maybe take actions you think are necessary based on a reaserch and move on with your life.

Good luck!
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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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GirlyGamerAU wrote:
I was then told I hadn't paid postage (which I thought I had), but if I did they'd send it straight out. So like a moron I sent them another $70 .. still nothing. I even got a lawyer friend to look into it at one point, but given the location even that was pointless due to differing laws in dif countries.
Do you have their promise to send you a game for $70 in writing? I'm not a lawyer, but I would be surprised if there's a country where that isn't legally binding.
 
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mortego
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I am sorry for your loss of money. For me, this is a lesson learned about doing my homework before backing a game. If the company is brand new then it's deal breaker for me, no backing.
 
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Mark Taylor
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Sorry to hear of all your trouble with this KS game. Looking at the other comments here and some of the comments on the KS campaign for Lobotomy I will be avoiding any Titan Forge Games unless they resolve your and other backer issues.
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Richard Dickson
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GirlyGamerAU wrote:
"Please note, that the backed amount wasn't the cost of the game, you contributed to Lobotomy's development and multiple production values."
Well, that's technically how all Kickstarters work: you're backing the existence of the game, not the game itself. The problem is that the promised reward for that backing was a copy of the game. So that reply is kind of a cop-out.
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James Thompson
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killerjoe1962 wrote:
I am sorry for your loss of money. For me, this is a lesson learned about doing my homework before backing a game. If the company is brand new then it's deal breaker for me, no backing.
Isn't this the precise reason KS exists in the first place? So these fledgling companies CAN produce their game/product/idea...
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Odd Tatu
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Speed Adict wrote:
Isn't this the precise reason KS exists in the first place? So these fledgling companies CAN produce their game/product/idea...
True! And I still love that you can find small, affordable games made by one guy and which probably will never go retail.
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mortego
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Speed Adict wrote:
killerjoe1962 wrote:
I am sorry for your loss of money. For me, this is a lesson learned about doing my homework before backing a game. If the company is brand new then it's deal breaker for me, no backing.
Isn't this the precise reason KS exists in the first place? So these fledgling companies CAN produce their game/product/idea...
I am totally okay with you & anyone else to back a small unknown company on KS. Me? no way. My caution vs my FOMO; caution wins every time.
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Looks like I dodged a bullet when I decided not to back this. My guess would be that the reason they are not fulfilling or refunding the remaining pledges is because they cannot. If I was in your position, I would choose between the following three options.
1) Give up on chasing until the company looks like it might have the capacity to repay you or give you your product, and then start chasing again.
2) Add all of the company’s games to your BGG collection, and put a short summary of your story as your public comment on each game. They are brushing off comments similar to yours on Lobotomy in KS, both on the Lobotomy project and in their current KS, but public comments on BGG will be a visible and persistent reminder that they should satisfy you, and might make them priotitize you for refunding over the others in your position.
3) Contact the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection (UOKiK) in Poland, and ask for their help.
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Jason Potapoff
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Can't you do a chargeback with your credit card company?
 
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B C Z
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Lobotomy had 4 pledge levels, though it's really only 2 w/ early bird options:
$85 early bird
$90 regular
$130 madness expansion early bird
$140 madness expansion regular

All levels included "Lobotomy + all applicable stretch goals"

If you backed at one of the above levels, you are due the game.

Since you indicated you're out $210, that implies you backed with the expansion ($140) + the revised shipping amount ($70).

Estimated Shipping to Australia was originally $43 but that likely changed given how bulky the game looks, which explains why you were charged %70.

You have credit card receipts and emails indicating they intended to ship you your game if they received the shipping costs.



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Martin V
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byronczimmer wrote:
Lobotomy had 4 pledge levels, though it's really only 2 w/ early bird options:
$85 early bird
$90 regular
$130 madness expansion early bird
$140 madness expansion regular

All levels included "Lobotomy + all applicable stretch goals"

If you backed at one of the above levels, you are due the game.

Since you indicated you're out $210, that implies you backed with the expansion ($140) + the revised shipping amount ($70).

Estimated Shipping to Australia was originally $43 but that likely changed given how bulky the game looks, which explains why you were charged %70.

You have credit card receipts and emails indicating they intended to ship you your game if they received the shipping costs.



Given this, would it not be possible for her to contact Kickstarter and try to resolve it that way? I get that KS says it is not a store and all, but since the game/reward was promised as part of her pledge and a successful funding, would that not mean she is entitled to her pledge reward? I don't know how that would work through KS, but I would hope they could contact Titanforge directly and try to resolve this.
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Gesine Stanienda
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i have heard so many terrible things about this for what seems to be exclusive to Australia/Australasia.
I had not heard of this game as a kickstarter at all, but had just bought it retail in the EU. And I saw it in a shop even here in Galway. So I am wondering (since Europe seems to have received their KS), did they ship the Australian versions to Europe as well, sold them retail and sold them twice effectively? What really gets me is that you can get the game for not a lot of money in Europe, so I cannot imagine that there are not enough copies around. I am really, really annoyed with this company and have decided not to get the expansion but will boycott them and their products for whatever it's worth.
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Voice of Reason wrote:
Given this, would it not be possible for her to contact Kickstarter and try to resolve it that way? I get that KS says it is not a store and all, but since the game/reward was promised as part of her pledge and a successful funding, would that not mean she is entitled to her pledge reward? I don't know how that would work through KS, but I would hope they could contact Titanforge directly and try to resolve this.
Kickstarter never gives assistance like that.

If the games are being sent to retail instead of to backers, then a complaint to the Polish authorities may be in order. I don’t know whether the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection is responsible for protecting non-EU consumers, but that should be a good place to start.
 
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Martin V
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ConG wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:
Given this, would it not be possible for her to contact Kickstarter and try to resolve it that way? I get that KS says it is not a store and all, but since the game/reward was promised as part of her pledge and a successful funding, would that not mean she is entitled to her pledge reward? I don't know how that would work through KS, but I would hope they could contact Titanforge directly and try to resolve this.
Kickstarter never gives assistance like that.

If the games are being sent to retail instead of to backers, then a complaint to the Polish authorities may be in order. I don’t know whether the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection is responsible for protecting non-EU consumers, but that should be a good place to start.
Con, that is unfortunate. Since KS collects some of the funds for their services, and given that they would want people to fund projects, through their website, I thought they would provide some level of support to backers in order to maintain their confidence. Thanks for letting me know that they don't. I will definitely keep that in mind for any KS campaigns I think of backing.
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Matthew Proper-Lee
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Voice of Reason wrote:
ConG wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:
Given this, would it not be possible for her to contact Kickstarter and try to resolve it that way? I get that KS says it is not a store and all, but since the game/reward was promised as part of her pledge and a successful funding, would that not mean she is entitled to her pledge reward? I don't know how that would work through KS, but I would hope they could contact Titanforge directly and try to resolve this.
Kickstarter never gives assistance like that.

If the games are being sent to retail instead of to backers, then a complaint to the Polish authorities may be in order. I don’t know whether the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection is responsible for protecting non-EU consumers, but that should be a good place to start.
Con, that is unfortunate. Since KS collects some of the funds for their services, and given that they would want people to fund projects, through their website, I thought they would provide some level of support to backers in order to maintain their confidence. Thanks for letting me know that they don't. I will definitely keep that in mind for any KS campaigns I think of backing.
Only because of experience and continued support that they get, I would tell you outright to avoid anything on IndieGoGo. They hold no support for backers despite many press releases claiming that they do (see the ongoing scams like the Arist or the Skarp) and how swell they support anyone backing "flexible funding" campaigns (you pay your money whether or not it can fully fund and be produced). Note the best part is that botht eh Arist and Skarp were kicked off of Kickstarter because they were suspicious, but allowed to fund and get money sent to the campaigns on IndieGoGo. For what it's worth, KS at least does have some protection.
 
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C&H Schmidt
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I have luckily not yet been in this position, but if they are genuinely not fulfilling to people in a certain part of the world, you are not the only one -- try to organise with other backers that are owed games (and yes, I think you are, although it'll be hard to enforce this in any way) and raise a stink on social media, and here on BGG on the game's own page. (Don't embellish, just give the facts and get attention!)

I thought Lobotomy was a fairly respected game and I'm surprised to hear that they just refuse to fulfil to at least a subset of backers.

I would also keep bugging the company directly.
And yeah, if they keep refusing to send you anything, look into disputing the payment with your credit card company.
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Nerfenstein aka GirlyGamer
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Just wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to comment. I'm going to look into the consumer issue thing local to them to see if I can file a complaint. I know someone said to let it go be a lesson to you, but I feel like that just lets them away with treating people poorly. Also $210 is a LOT of money for me. I didn't even think of looking into the local consumer protection thing where they are as opposed to where I am. I'm also going to email them AGAIN and leave another comment on KS.

Once again thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to try and help, what a great bunch you are. Thank you BGG!
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Voice of Reason wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Lobotomy had 4 pledge levels, though it's really only 2 w/ early bird options:
$85 early bird
$90 regular
$130 madness expansion early bird
$140 madness expansion regular

All levels included "Lobotomy + all applicable stretch goals"

If you backed at one of the above levels, you are due the game.

Since you indicated you're out $210, that implies you backed with the expansion ($140) + the revised shipping amount ($70).

Estimated Shipping to Australia was originally $43 but that likely changed given how bulky the game looks, which explains why you were charged %70.

You have credit card receipts and emails indicating they intended to ship you your game if they received the shipping costs.



Given this, would it not be possible for her to contact Kickstarter and try to resolve it that way? I get that KS says it is not a store and all, but since the game/reward was promised as part of her pledge and a successful funding, would that not mean she is entitled to her pledge reward? I don't know how that would work through KS, but I would hope they could contact Titanforge directly and try to resolve this.
I’ve complained directly to KS about a campaign that didn’t fulfill nor provide refunds, despite offering that.

I think that entity defaulted in two campaigns with people complaining and was restricted from launching a future campaign.

She can ask KS to impose some restriction upon the company and provide notice that past backers have complaints on file.
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Markus
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I have backed 58 Kickstarter campaigns and have so far been burned twice: once for $139.00 and once for $11.00. Neither has been a particularly pleasant experience, but I've decided to accept them and move on. I still back new campaigns, but always with the expectation that I might get nothing out of the deal.
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DeePee wrote:
I have backed 58 Kickstarter campaigns and have so far been burned twice: once for $139.00 and once for $11.00. Neither has been a particularly pleasant experience, but I've decided to accept them and move on. I still back new campaigns, but always with the expectation that I might get nothing out of the deal.
I agree. I never back anything on Kickstarter unless I'm comfortable with potentially losing all the money I use to back a project.
 
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