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Enemy Action: Ardennes» Forums » Rules

Subject: GS expedited reserves question rss

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Jeff Fike
United States
Minnesota
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Dec 16
Pulled expedited reserves.

It was for fifth corps (allies).

I had two cards in draw pile and triggered late day rule.

I noted the dec 16th rule was in effect and only one would deploy, however there were no positions eligible per method A

The expedited rules state “deploy per reserve deploy rules “

The reserve deploy rules state if no position is eligible skip this command and go to next command.

However I do have two units I can move from 12/17 to 12/16.

So do I skip the command entirely? Or do I put the two fifth Corp units in the reserve box a day early?

I don’t see s concise way to resolve this.

On one hand, the rules tell me to follow deploy reserves rules which state I skip the command. On the other, the rules clearly show that due to 12/16, if they can’t deploy they still expedite to reserves but the rules were specifically addressing the 12/16 rule and not the no position rule in that case.

In this case, the rules contradict or, at minimum, are confusing.

Thanks in advance for any help.

I am currently ruling that they expedite to the reserve box since they can’t deploy and the I pulse is over.
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Grant Laing
Scotland
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Hi Jeff

Id say move on to the next command as you are not able to comply with Expedite Reserves with the Late Day rules.

However this part of the Late Day Deployment -

"The Slow Allied Reaction
restriction on December 16 (4.13) – no more than one
unit may be deployed by a Deploy Reserves command –
remains in effect, even though the eligible reserves have
been expedited to the Reserve Units box
."

does make me wonder :-)

Cheers

Grant
 
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Jeff Fike
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Grantos64 wrote:
Hi Jeff

Id say move on to the next command as you are not able to comply with Expedite Reserves with the Late Day rules.

However this part of the Late Day Deployment -

"The Slow Allied Reaction
restriction on December 16 (4.13) – no more than one
unit may be deployed by a Deploy Reserves command –
remains in effect, even though the eligible reserves have
been expedited to the Reserve Units box
."

does make me wonder :-)

Cheers

Grant
So here is where I landed. The expedite reserves paragraph (which is above the late day paragraph) says “move to reserve box”. Then it says, if late day, do deployment. So no matter what reserves were moved. As such, I don’t do next command. Command action complete. With no actual deployment.

This also fits in with the rule you highlighted.
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Martin Åkerlund
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schmoo34 wrote:

So here is where I landed. The expedite reserves paragraph (which is above the late day paragraph) says “move to reserve box”. Then it says, if late day, do deployment. So no matter what reserves were moved. As such, I don’t do next command. Command action complete. With no actual deployment.

This also fits in with the rule you highlighted.
For what it's worth, I agree with this ruling. Move the reserves forward then end the action.

 
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Grant Laing
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I still think this is debatable, as you could read that you skip to 9.51 (as this is the rule that applies to the situation), and as such doesnt let you complete the command. However the bold that I highlighted in the previous post suggests that the intention is to have them be moved to the reserve box initially.
I think that it could be interpreted both ways however and could do with some confirmation :-)

Cheers

Grant
 
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Martin Åkerlund
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My point is that by expediting the reserves (moving them forward one day) you have performed an Allied action, whether it's "complete" or not.

It seems wrong that the player should be required to perform another action - essentially two Allied actions from one card - just because the reserves couldn't be placed on the map.

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Grant Laing
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You dont move them forward, you move them to reserves, but Im sure thats what you mean :-)

I agree if they actually get moved to the reserve box :-)

As in, if you have to carry out rule 9.5 first, then try to carry out 9.51

If they go straight to 9.51 though and

"deploy any units
eligible to be expedited directly to the map"

then it could be up for debate, because they will not have completed a command.

I do however feel that the intention is that they do make an initial move (and so complete a command) to the reserve box.

Cheers

Grant
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Martin Åkerlund
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I never even considered not moving the units forward, i.e. not expediting them, an option, should you not be able to place them. I now understand your point, but I have a hard time seeing it as a viable option.

The way I saw it, the options were:

1) move them forward to the reserve box and place them if possible. If not possible, the action is over.

or

2) Move them forward to the reserve box and place them if possible. If not possible continue to the next Action.

Between these two, option 1 seems to be the clear winner.

Every now and then John shows up with the answer. Let's see if we get lucky this time.
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Grant Laing
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Yeah ok. I do think your right, and will play it this way if it ever occurs :-)

Cheers

Grant
 
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Jeff Fike
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Gentlemen, you will see me get angst on video 6 of my second playthrough over this exact topic!! It failed to upload last night so I am trying again now.

For me, they either stay at dec 17 and I do another command or they move to reserve box and fail to deploy.

I don’t like them expediting and then doing another command.

I do see it both ways. And definitely believe it could be more clear.

The thing that ultimately sealed the deal is the expedite rule does ask you to move to reserve box first. And the part asking you to skip the command is in the deploy rules, not the expedite rules.

When the rules specifically mention dec 16, it says deploy one while the other is already in reserves. This paragraph is confirming that they move to reserves first prior to deployment.

So I concluded command complete as it partially played out and altered the game state.

 
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Jeff Fike
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I want to add someone else also asked this question and they concluded another command occurs without ever clarifying if they moved the units to the reserve box. So this was already answered on bgg in one other spot back in 2016. I didn’t agree with the answer and I admit I’m not savvy enough to know if responding to a three year old post brings it to the front so I asked it again.
 
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Grant Laing
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Hi Jeff

I think you should rule it as you believe. I have always ended up (maybe debated a couple of times :-) going along with Martins answers to any of the D-day games in particular and more recently EAA. His explanations always seem to be logical, believable (frustrating at times :-) and sometimes just straight out the rulebook!

Play it this way until Mr Butterfield says otherwise :-)

Cheers

Grant
 
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Mariano Rico
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Expedite reserves is the main rule to follow in this case, only by not being able to apply that rule (that is, not having units of the related corps in the next calendar day) would you move to next allied card command.

Late day deployment is a special case to Expedite Reserves that can or cannot happen in the first place (conditioned to the number of cards left in the draw pile). So since expedite reserves still applies even if Late Day Deployment doesnt most of the time, I also would say you played it right. V corps units expedite to reserve box, allied turn is over.
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John Brown
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My only quibble with this ruling is that the rules say (emphasis mine):
Quote:
...deploy any units eligible to be expedited directly to the map, per the reserve deployment rules, instead of placing them in the Reserve Units box.


Directly by itself would heavily imply that the units aren't moved, but the added "instead" clause seems to seal the deal in my mind. But this does contradict the later clause about the Dec 16th rule applying:
Quote:
"even though the eligible reserves have been expedited to the Reserves Units box"
I'm inclined to believe the Dec 16th clause is incorrect. When you get an expedite reserves early in a turn, they have some opportunity to be deployed via a Deploy Reserves command. Late Day deployment is there to keep a potentially wasted Expedite Reserves command from being done i.e. expediting reserves when they have little to no chance of deploying on the current turn and would have already been eligible to deploy on the next turn.

I did double-check the EAA forums on Consimworld in case JB or someone else had answered there, but actually someone was bringing up this very case in a unanswered questions post about 2 months ago.

In the end, this is your game...do what's going to give you the most enjoyment and/or makes the most sense to you.


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John Butterfield
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If the expedite reserve command occurs when there are two or fewer cards in the German draw pile, you are instructed to deploy the units directly to the map INSTEAD of placing them in the reserve box. If no units can be deployed to the map, the expedite reserve command is considered not conducted -- move on the next command on the Allied command card.
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