Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

At Any Cost: Metz 1870» Forums » Rules

Subject: HQ Overrun and rallying units rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Alexei Gartinski
Jordan
Amman
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Playing through the Twilight of the Guards, I had a Prussian IXth Corps HQs being overrun by a successful French assault (the French used their CIC chit, since otherwise the French cannot assault in this scenario). Manstein's HQs retreated to join one of its disrupted infantry brigades.

During its subsequent activation (the Overrun status is only removed at the end of the turn (12.10) Manstein wanted to rally the disrupted brigade he was now stacked with.

Since "an Overrun HQs can only remove/flip markers from units stuck with it"(13.2.1), Manstein should be able to do that. However, removing disrupted status from a unit would cost him 2 Recovery actions (13.2.2) to be "paid" from the "pool" of Command rating of the HQ (13.4), which, in case of an Overrun HQs is "0" (12.10).

So, just to clarify: can he (13.2.1) or cannot he (12.10) rally the infantry brigade he's stuck with?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gianluca Spessato
msg tools
mbmb
13.2.1 says clearly it can. Read carefully, second sentence.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Redcap
England
Higham
Kent
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hieronymus62 wrote:
13.2.1 says clearly it can. Read carefully, second sentence.
And that's why Alexei is asking because it also clearly says in 12.10 that an Overrun HQ has a command value of '0'

And in 13.4 says that an HQ can only conduct rallies and rebuilds up to its command value.

If its Command value is zero, that also clearly suggests it cannot rally anything that turn (which seems fair enough as its just been Overrun and spent the turn repositioning itself to safety with a nearest unit).

For what its worth, we play it they the HQ cannot Rally anything that turn, otherwise there is no penalty for being Overrun. That said, I refrained from answering because as Gianluca says, it also seems 'clearly' in 13.2.1.

Definitely one for Hermann or Fred to answer.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
HERMANN LUTTMANN
United States
Knoxville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the question and answers guys!
It's sometimes hard to answer these as the rules were written a couple of years ago and a half-dozen projects ago! I just checked the rules and it seems that this is one of those cases where we had a late mechanics change (the idea that an HQ can Rally a number of units equal to its CR) that did not get updated throughout the text. We missed the case of the "0" Command Rating then not being allowed to rally any units. We should have changed 13.2.1 and removed the part about the HQ being able to rally units in its hex.

So yes - Overrun HQ's may not Rally any units during that turn.

Thanks!
Herm

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gianluca Spessato
msg tools
mbmb
As not said, I have to cancel the second sentence in 13.2.1. Think that just today I finished to translate rulebook and play book in my mother tongue! Thanks Hermann!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexei Gartinski
Jordan
Amman
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Thanks, Hermann! It's all clear now. By the way, that was the ONLY question regarding the rules I had so far (midway through the second small battle scenario now), and even that one was actually answered in the text (albeit a bit differently in two places ;-) That's what I call "quality" in the rulebooks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
HERMANN LUTTMANN
United States
Knoxville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Alexei!
I appreciate the support. It's so freakin' tough to write these rulebooks and keep all the changes/tweaks/corrections in order - especially when it's one of those late epiphanies.

Herm
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls