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Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Is shuffling after searching through a deck assumed rss

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Gordon Hart
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Often I've seen specific wording which will instruct to shuffle a deck after being told to search through it to find a card.

So if a card, like the "Through The Gates" basic weakness as an example, doesn't mention shuffling after searching and removing, do you leave the deck as is? Or shuffle regardless?
 
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Alfy Burger
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Edited: correct answer below.
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Edward Boardman
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“If an effect searches an entire deck, the deck must be shuffled upon completion of the search.” Rules Reference, Search, first bullet point.
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Kill Bray
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Yeah, the real question is why cards like "Research Librarian" tell you to shuffle your deck when it is already stated in the rules that you must shuffle your deck after the search.

This can easily lead some people to mistakenly think that the statement is necessary and in its absence you aren't supposed to shuffle.
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Gordon Hart
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Assussanni wrote:
“If an effect searches an entire deck, the deck must be shuffled upon completion of the search.” Rules Reference, Search, first bullet point.
Thank you. The Golden Rule says text on cards takes precedence to either rule books so I wasn't sure if by them having "shuffle deck" on some cards and not others was purposeful.
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The golden rule can't apply to such cases.

It can only apply when a card contradicts an established rule, and the absence of confirmation of an established rule (even when similar cards have that) cannot be considered a contradiction.
 
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MC Shudde M'ell
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thegroden1h wrote:
Assussanni wrote:
“If an effect searches an entire deck, the deck must be shuffled upon completion of the search.” Rules Reference, Search, first bullet point.
Thank you. The Golden Rule says text on cards takes precedence to either rule books so I wasn't sure if by them having "shuffle deck" on some cards and not others was purposeful.
It's a very reasonable concern. Even though the Rules would seem to apply unambiguously, the presence of such text on some cards but not others makes the rule more confusing than it needed to be.
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thegroden1h wrote:
Assussanni wrote:
“If an effect searches an entire deck, the deck must be shuffled upon completion of the search.” Rules Reference, Search, first bullet point.
Thank you. The Golden Rule says text on cards takes precedence to either rule books so I wasn't sure if by them having "shuffle deck" on some cards and not others was purposeful.
I think it is just added as a reminder on some cards, although as pointed out this isn’t necessarily helpful if it isn’t done consistently.

The Golden Rule would require explicit text on a card. So if a card ever says something like “Search you deck for X. Do not shuffle your deck after searching.” then this would take precedence over the rules in the Rules Reference.
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Assussanni wrote:
thegroden1h wrote:
Assussanni wrote:
“If an effect searches an entire deck, the deck must be shuffled upon completion of the search.” Rules Reference, Search, first bullet point.
Thank you. The Golden Rule says text on cards takes precedence to either rule books so I wasn't sure if by them having "shuffle deck" on some cards and not others was purposeful.
I think it is just added as a reminder on some cards, although as pointed out this isn’t necessarily helpful if it isn’t done consistently.

The Golden Rule would require explicit text on a card. So if a card ever says something like “Search you deck for X. Do not shuffle your deck after searching.” then this would take precedence over the rules in the Rules Reference.
Yes, but if you were relatively new to the game, and you had one card that said “Search your deck for X, then shuffle your deck," and then you had another card that just read “Search your deck for X,” it would certainly give you the impression that one required you to shuffle but the other did not.
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Nushura
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ArkhamHorrorGuy wrote:

Yes, but if you were relatively new to the game, and you had one card that said “Search your deck for X, then shuffle your deck," and then you had another card that just read “Search your deck for X,” it would certainly give you the impression that one required you to shuffle but the other did not.
There can be pluses and minuses for all options: never say redundant info (reducing clutter of cards), and always say it (reducing amount of rulebook searching).

FFG has aimed for a middle ground: if the card has little to no text, then any keyword or redundant rules (like shuffling) are omitted. This goes well with the idea that new players will start with the core set: as the cycles go by, the text on cards normally gets more and more complicated, often making space a more precious resource. Thus clarifications disappear more often than not on later sets.

However, if we are being honest, FFG has always been good at...not being consistent. The rules are typed (and proofread) by different people, and even though they try to be consistent between sets they are not always 100% correct.
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Branko K.
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Maybe it's unfortunate that the rule about shuffling is sometimes there and sometimes not, but I would think it's common sense. When the decks should be in a "randomized" state, everything that reveals the cards and their order (i.e. turning the deck over and searching for them card) puts them out of that state. Hence, returning the deck in a randomized state is necessary without the rule needing to explicitly state it.
 
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baba44713 wrote:
Maybe it's unfortunate that the rule about shuffling is sometimes there and sometimes not, but I would think it's common sense. When the decks should be in a "randomized" state, everything that reveals the cards and their order (i.e. turning the deck over and searching for them card) puts them out of that state. Hence, returning the deck in a randomized state is necessary without the rule needing to explicitly state it.
It makes sense for you and I, but newcomers might not find it so evident. For one thing, someone might think that certain cards simply have the added "perk" of giving you additional information.

I personally feel consistency in card text is key. "Shuffle your deck" is 3 words, and they should be able to add that systematically without overloading the card. Especially when the rules are one "learn to play" book with minimal information, and a "reference" that is not meant to be read but consulted when needed (and thus which will only be consulted when one realises there is a need for it....
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Gordon Hart
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baba44713 wrote:
Maybe it's unfortunate that the rule about shuffling is sometimes there and sometimes not, but I would think it's common sense. When the decks should be in a "randomized" state, everything that reveals the cards and their order (i.e. turning the deck over and searching for them card) puts them out of that state. Hence, returning the deck in a randomized state is necessary without the rule needing to explicitly state it.
There are actually many other card/board games where this type of scrying is part of an intentional design mechanic. So that, mixed with the inconsistency of sometimes telling you to shuffle and sometimes not, I thought it worth checking.

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