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Subject: [Fun] Rules for making coffee in ASL rss

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Slyvanian Frog
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That is beautiful.
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I think that you are on to something here. If I remember correctly in Steven Ambrose's D-Day, there was a point where some British units rather than pushing on, stopped to make tea.

Maybe victory conditions could be set up to require a certain number of coffee units to be brewed. Or perhaps the British or American units are required to take a certain building, move up to the top floor, and then successfully brew coffee/tea as they survey the countryside.

If the scenario is set in Italy, should there be the possibility of capturing and operating espresso machines if a certain buildings are designated as bars or restaurants?
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May I also suggest that on a DR of 12, if the hex is in suitable terrain, a risk of fire is possible.

---------------

The lead elements of XXX corps stopped on the way to Arnhem for tea, to the great disgust of the US Airborne, as they had just secured a means to get there.
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Matt Kruczek
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When the unit is British you will need to make an extra roll to see if the milk is put in the cup before or after the tea. If the tea is poured first then any leadership bonuses are halved for next turn due to the officers having to drink a substandard beverage. On a roll of 12 the tea is automatically stewed and movement for the next turn reduced by 1 as the unit has to pop into the bushes, having first made a concealment check on the terrain.
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Todd Pytel
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I made a few modifications to make it more ASLRB-like. Also, in full ASL this would probably be a Labor Task, so it would be performed during Prep, result in TI status, and would accumulate Labor counters for failed attempts.

3.311 Coffee Creation:
At the beginning of its MPh, a Good Order MMC may attempt to make coffee (EXC: tea for British MMC's) instead of expending any MF. For Defensive Fire purposes this action counts as an expenditure of 1 MF using Non-Assault Movement. A DR equal to or less than the Coffee Creation Difficulty (CCD) noted on the Coffee Counter results in success. Apply a +1 DRM if the unit is inexperienced and any applicable leadership modifiers. If the attempt is successful, the unit gets refreshed and its thirst is quenched - increase that unit's IPC by one for the remainder of the scenario and mark it with a Caffeine counter. If the DR exceeds the modified CCD the CCA was unsuccessful or the quality of the coffee didn’t have any impact on the unit. If the DR exceeds the CCD of the squad making the CCA by its ELR or more, a Sugar Depletion Check (SDC) is made. The difficulty of the SDC dr is depicted by the Sugar Depletion Number (SDN) on the front of the Coffee Counter. If the dr doesn’t exceed the SDN there is still sugar available, if not the squad’s sugar reserves are depleted and the Coffee Counter is flipped to its backside to note that the quality of any coffee made by this unit in further attempts is of marginally decreased quality. Lack of sugar results in a +1 DRM to any future CCD rolls by that unit (EXC: British squads Recall in the same manner as an AFV with a disabled MA). If the CCA DR results in an original 12, the unit also suffers a case of tremendous diarrhea in addition to a SDC and therefore becomes Pinned.[/q]
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Christopher O
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Excellent!

The corollary to this in Combat Commander: Europe is:

E78. Making Coffee

"One lump or two?"

- Bugs Bunny


When this event occurs, the receiving player must determine a Random Hex [1.8]. That player may select one unit in or adjacent to that hex and have it try to make coffee. The player then makes a Making Coffee Roll [O20.2.4].

If the Making Coffee Roll exceeds the Coffee/Tea Rating for that nation and year then coffee is made. If the unit is broken, unbreak it. If the unit is suppressed, remove the suppression marker. If the unit already has a veteran marker on it, take no further action. Otherwise, place a Veteran marker on it.

If the Making Coffee Roll equals the Coffee/Tea Rating for that nation and year, then it becomes Suppressed, unless the unit is British, in which case it becomes Broken.

If the Making Coffee Roll equals the Coffee/Tea Rating for that nation and year, then it becomes Broken.

If an unmodified 12 is rolled, then the game ends and whoever was the acting player wins.







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Wulf Corbett
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Is there any difference between coffee, Coffee and COFFEE? Like smoke/Smoke/SMOKE and adjacent/Adjacent/ADJACENT?

Wulf
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Todd Pytel
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
Is there any difference between coffee, Coffee and COFFEE? Like smoke/Smoke/SMOKE and adjacent/Adjacent/ADJACENT?

I think that it would logically follow Smoke/SMOKE - i.e. COFFEE includes both Coffee and Tea, whereas Coffee is strictly coffee and not tea. But it would help if there were a functional difference between Coffee and Tea.
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Matt Hoskins
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Hilarious post! thumbsup

Cheers
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Michael Taylor
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autumnweave wrote:
I think that you are on to something here. If I remember correctly in Steven Ambrose's D-Day, there was a point where some British units rather than pushing on, stopped to make tea.



That happened in the Market-Garden campaign as well. The tankers in the XXXth Corps stopped for tea whenever it was time. The American Army Air Force controller was amazed.

Mike
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Michael Taylor
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Michael Dorosh wrote:
gvchief wrote:
autumnweave wrote:
I think that you are on to something here. If I remember correctly in Steven Ambrose's D-Day, there was a point where some British units rather than pushing on, stopped to make tea.



That happened in the Market-Garden campaign as well. The tankers in the XXXth Corps stopped for tea whenever it was time. The American Army Air Force controller was amazed.

Mike


Source?


A Bridge Too Far by Cornelius Ryan. I was trying to find the exact page, but couldn't. I apologize.

There were several forward air controllers on the ground with XXXth Corps, as US Army Air Force planes were supporting the operation. the one whose story is related in the book asked the tankermen what they were doing stopped along the road. The replyed that they were brewing tea and that the chaps in Arnhem would understand. This was on the first day, when they were already several hours behind schedule.

I'll keep looking for the page number.

Mike
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Stephen Stewart
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SpaceButler wrote:
Actually the idea for this came during a teaching session with a friend last week.
One of his American squads found himself in open ground in front of a stone building containing a German elite squad and an HMG. My pal already thought the squad lost and at least tried to make some smoke, so his remaining squads in the rear could advance with some protecting hindrances for the German MG.
The smoke dr turned out to be a 6, which means the unit looses all his MF for the remainder of the turn in SK rules, "Seems they decided to make some coffee instead of doing anything useful this turn", was his comment.
I smirked and declared FpF by the German squad against the coffee slurping yanks, hopefully shooing them away from the building. Long story short, I rolled an 11, the krauts broke and left their precious HMG behind.
I couldn't help but chuckle for the remainder of the day, imagining the picture of German elite soldiers abandoning their fortified position in terror by the sight of an American squad drinking coffee right on front of them in wide open ground.


Well, the squad actually did a better job, missing his smoke placement dr. The HMG is now Final Fired and can't fire past the adjacent squad anyway...actually better than smoke...since you won't need it.

LOL
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bestia immonda
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I think Italians should have a positive modifier.... Hey, WE invented espresso!!!
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Uwe A. Redjac
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The frumpy old man says: "Bah!"
I don't like all this new stuff with coffees and teas and what-not.

Or any of this SK-hollaboo either. That's all baby stuff for an ADD generation.

Or this VASSAL crap. You want to diddle-daddle with your X-Box? Go play WoW or that other nonsense! Leave me alone with your dirty computer machines.

Thinking of it, I don't like ASL 2nd ed. either. A REAL Grognard goes thru the 30,000 posts on consimworld to know his Errata.

Matter of fact, I also hate the IIFT. The IIFT is for lazy asses who can't appreciate the joy of micromanaging troops into neat 4 / 6 FP parcels. People who do not like this should not even be allowed to legally own ASL.

Matter of fact, ASL is shit. We should never have strayed from SL. It all went to hell in a handbasket with COI. If any of you even knew what that was.

I will go back to my cave now. That would be case [G 11] ... YOU LOSERS!

goo
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Michael Taylor
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I think it started going to hell in a handbasket starting with COD. The journey was completed in GI.

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Uwe A. Redjac
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I hate crossovers!
gvchief wrote:
I think it started going to hell in a handbasket starting with COD. The journey was completed in GI.



I #&%$§!!! hate evolution. Hated it from day one. We NEVER should have climbed out of the trees.

Look at this now: Coffee beans! "ASL goes Puerto Rico!!!" You guys are an Euro-disgrace to the ASL community with your silly antics.

goo
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Uwe A. Redjac
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SpaceButler wrote:
Priceless Mr. Reuter thumbsup


Sorry, I just now checked your Top 10 and had to chuckle real bad when I saw what is on entry 5 and 6. I swear I did not know this when I wrote about the cross-over.

Okay, you are excused laugh
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Michael Erwin
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I wouldn't recommend adding the risk of fire except as an optional rule.

Unfortunately, many scenarios break down if, for example, the defenders burn everything down. These scenarios usually include SSRs forbidding the use of kindling. Having each 12 COFFEE creation DR cause a blaze would allow players to evade the SSRs.
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I've never had the opportunity to play ASL, but I had a good laugh anyway. Great work.
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I think the whole tea thing is a peculiarly British institution.

I recall remember reading the history of Delta Force written by Charles Beckwith and he recalled his first day at a 22 SAS base...he walked into a barracks and a couple of troopers were on the floor, engrossed in brewing tea.
 
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gvchief wrote:
Michael Dorosh wrote:
gvchief wrote:
autumnweave wrote:
I think that you are on to something here. If I remember correctly in Steven Ambrose's D-Day, there was a point where some British units rather than pushing on, stopped to make tea.



That happened in the Market-Garden campaign as well. The tankers in the XXXth Corps stopped for tea whenever it was time. The American Army Air Force controller was amazed.

Mike


Source?


A Bridge Too Far by Cornelius Ryan. I was trying to find the exact page, but couldn't. I apologize.

There were several forward air controllers on the ground with XXXth Corps, as US Army Air Force planes were supporting the operation. the one whose story is related in the book asked the tankermen what they were doing stopped along the road. The replyed that they were brewing tea and that the chaps in Arnhem would understand. This was on the first day, when they were already several hours behind schedule.

I'll keep looking for the page number.

Mike


This def. happened in Operation Market Garden. I think it was just after the Americans crossed a rive in row boats and took a bridge. It's mentioned by Ryan's book and also Ambroses', although it's in Citizen Soldiers, not D-Day. Just reading CS now. Excellent read.
 
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walter branham
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you are on to something,,,,,,need rule provisions for black & cream.
 
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Michael Dorosh
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Wilhammer wrote:

The lead elements of XXX corps stopped on the way to Arnhem for tea, to the great disgust of the US Airborne, as they had just secured a means to get there.


There is a great danger of attempting to learn history from Hollywood movies.

There were plenty of questionable decisions in MARKET-GARDEN to go around (the bridge at Rhenen comes to mind) that will be debated for centuries, but tactical commanders literally refusing to fight in favour of having refreshments wasn't one of them.

There is a scene in the film "A Bridge Too Far" where the Nijmegen bridge was taken by troops of the Guards Armoured and the 82nd Airborne. This happened in real life. In the film, a British tank commander is shown on the "Island" with his men as they brew up, and an agitated Robert Redford, over-acting, fumes "Those are British troops in Arnhem. You're not just going to sit here...and DRINK TEA."

The British tank commander replies - sensibly, though I suspect the conversation is fictional - that "my orders are to wait for the infantry" which he explains are still fighting in Nijmegen.

A good book to read about the fighting in Nijmegen is Tim Saunders' NIJMEGEN in the Battlefield Europe series which discusses the fighting at the bridge in detail, by both the British and the Americans.

ASL players will recall the old GI scenario CLIMAX AT NIJMEGEN BRIDGE. The scene in the film takes place just after the events depicted in that scenario. FWIW I took a look at the battlefield in this blog post.

Back to the point, though - brewing tea was habitual. British soldiers of any unit stopped for any length of time would naturally fall out to make tea. It was as ritualistic as digging trenches and cleaning weapons. It wasn't indicative of laziness, sloth or unwillingness to help allies. It was simply something they did. If they happened to be making tea while ordered to halt on the road, it's neither here nor there, and certainly not indicative of any laxness in the drive to the north. As noted, there were a lot of other bad decisions, and while some commanders may have had poor opinions of the lack of drive of some units in XXX Corps, the fact that they drank tea isn't proof of it.
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Michael Dorosh wrote:
Back to the point, though - brewing tea was habitual. British soldiers of any unit stopped for any length of time would naturally fall out to make tea. It was as ritualistic as digging trenches and cleaning weapons. It wasn't indicative of laziness, sloth or unwillingness to help allies. It was simply something they did. If they happened to be making tea while ordered to halt on the road, it's neither here nor there, and certainly not indicative of any laxness in the drive to the north. As noted, there were a lot of other bad decisions, and while some commanders may have had poor opinions of the lack of drive of some units in XXX Corps, the fact that they drank tea isn't proof of it.


Yes, and this makes sense. The whole "tea" thing is just a way for Americans to assert snideness at what is viewed as an effete activity in connection with the assertion that the British were not as aggressive as they should have been (i.e. another way of calling them effete).

It seems like it would be the equivalent of bumping into a group of Americans in the morning drinking coffee and screaming, "Why aren't you attacking?" It is quite possible they are not attacking because, well, they're not supposed to be attacking. Not because they really badly wanted some coffee.

I suppose it is a correlation/causation logic error. Drinking tea while not advancing does not imply that drinking tea is the reason for not advancing.
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Michael Dorosh
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It's particularly galling to have to put up with guff from Robert Redford (or at least, his character on screen). There was an interview with one of the propmasters/stuntmen many years ago in an issue of Military Illustrated who talked about his experiences with different Hollywood productions as a self-proclaimed "waffenmeister." He loved Lee Marvin, who came to the set of The Dirty Dozen, one of the propmaster's first films IIRC. The propmaster attempted to show Marvin how to use an M3 submachine gun, and Marvin took it from him, field stripped it, put it back together, and slammed it down on the table, demonstrating to the red-faced propmaster that he had, of course, been in the USMC during World War II.

He was not complimentary, however, about an un-named Hollywood actor who showed up on the set of A Bridge Too Far, refused to get a period haircut, asked for cardboard to fill his holster because a real .45 calibre pistol was "too heavy", refused to wear army boots and instead wore sneakers dyed brown, and carried a dummy rifle because the Garand was also too heavy. He doesn't name the actor, but does mention he was part of the river crossing scene. Kind of narrows it down some. The interview is in Issue No. 20 (Aug/Sep 1989 of MI) for those interested.
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