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Subject: Kickstarter Exclusives!!! rss

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Thebrewgeek
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Is anybody else tired of companies dodging the question "Is this a Kickstarter Exclusive (expansion or part of the game)"? For example I'm tired of companies saying it will not be released in retail but "may" be released in conventions or my website after the kickstarter. Is it me or is this getting super tiring. Just come out and say NO THIS IS NOT KICKSTARTER EXCLUSIVE it most likely may be released after the kickstarter on my site or conventions. Just own up to it and don't be around the bush and you should state it CLEARLY in your Kickstarter page...
 
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No One
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Companies aren't your friend. They're there to make money. They're going to avoid as much as possible saying something that could wind up causing them money such as committing to something being an exclusive when they could start selling it should it become in demand.

~V
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CARL SKUTSCH
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Veero wrote:

Companies aren't your friend. They're there to make money. They're going to avoid as much as possible saying something that could wind up causing them money such as committing to something being an exclusive when they could start selling it should it become in demand.

~V
Not... my friend?!?

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No One
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skutsch wrote:
Veero wrote:

Companies aren't your friend. They're there to make money. They're going to avoid as much as possible saying something that could wind up causing them money such as committing to something being an exclusive when they could start selling it should it become in demand.

~V
Not... my friend?!?

Okay, they can be your friend... just not the OP's.

~V
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Roger
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not really sure why it even matters...? Buying it to sell for profit down the road?

If so, should the developers get in on that action?
 
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Brad Miller
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Having never backed a KickStarter, this isn't an issue for me!

Expect the disingenuous behaviors by KS "publishers" to continue...
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CARL SKUTSCH
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They may actually be unsure if they're going to release it. It's not being disingenuous if you're actually in doubt.

Anyway, I don't care. If I really want it down the road, I'll pay 5x for someone else's copy. Probably that won't happen. I find that my desire for Kickstarter games declines as the release date approaches.
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Gláucio Reis
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Thebrewgeek wrote:
For example I'm tired of companies saying it will not be released in retail but "may" be released in conventions or my website after the kickstarter. Is it me or is this getting super tiring.
Being sold is not the same thing as being released. Publishers are not going to produce an item in exactly the number necessary to attend all backers. They are just reserving the right to sell or give away the surplus. Would you prefer that they burned it all just so that no-one who was not a backer could have the item?
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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That's how the game is played.
In the end it's not that different from promos that are exclusive to a Youtuber KS campaign, to a magazine, to a store, to a first printing, to a tournament, to a book, or what have you.
It's up to you, as a customer, to deem your personal amount of interest in the material and what you are ready to pay for it to support the publisher or the person to whom the exclusivity has been offered. It's up to you to measure how much not having said material would bother you.
If you don't want to play the promo game just cover your eyes and look elsewhere Because not all companies will be super clear about it.

I personally support companies that decide to make promo material easily available by any means, including printing them as part of a future expansion.
If I was in to make money I wouldn't be in the hobby.
 
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Odd Tatu
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Personnally, I think there shouldn't be Kickstarter Exclusives at all. People should be allowed to ge access to ALL of the contents in one way or another even if they missed a one-month campaign. You might discover a game two years after its KS campaign, grow fond of it, and if so, it's better if you can access any expasnion and promo pack that can have been released.

I think with kickstarter, you have (in principle) lower prices than retail, a way to purchase games which would otherwise be very difficult sometimes to get your hands on (especially if you live in a different country), you participate to an exciting and involving campaign, and all of this is enough rewarding in itself to forget about "exclusive" contents.

So, yes, I think it is not only legitimate, but also a good thing, to be able to obtain the exclusive KS contents through a developper's personal website or in a convention. If exclusive means "non-retail", I am perfectly fine with that.
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Draxon Bailo
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yeah, I am not a fan of KS Exclusives, IF they add content to a game.
If it is just a special 'post card' or a pin or some stickers, then I'm not worried.
But if it is an 'Extra mission, special character, some sort of game mechanic or expansion or such, then that poo's me off.
If I can't afford a game at the time of its KS and it has exclusives then I will never buy the game even at retail, for I will feel as though I'm only getting 'half' a game (so to speak).

I enjoy the KS that don't have exclusives but have stretch goals that even people in retail will get is the goals are met. Makes you feel like you are helping everyone get a better game instead of only some people.
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Graham Dauncey
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I find the model somewhat dumb in the end. If you make something 'exclusive' and it is huge success, then you really limit yourself from cashing in on that success as a company. Case in point at the moment for me is Orléans: Deluxe Edition. I can see that TMG are being bombarded by questions in the current Yokohama campaign about it and even they admit they were kind of stupid to box themselves in by promising something to be totally exclusive and one off. In some ways I respect them for keeping their promise, but as someone who missed that campaign and would love to get a copy it is frustrating, particularly with the premium on the secondary market.
 
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Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
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Zerbique wrote:
Personnally, I think there shouldn't be Kickstarter Exclusives at all. People should be allowed to ge access to ALL of the contents in one way or another even if they missed a one-month campaign. You might discover a game two years after its KS campaign, grow fond of it, and if so, it's better if you can access any expasnion and promo pack that can have been released.

I think with kickstarter, you have (in principle) lower prices than retail, a way to purchase games which would otherwise be very difficult sometimes to get your hands on (especially if you live in a different country), you participate to an exciting and involving campaign, and all of this is enough rewarding in itself to forget about "exclusive" contents.

So, yes, I think it is not only legitimate, but also a good thing, to be able to obtain the exclusive KS contents through a developper's personal website or in a convention. If exclusive means "non-retail", I am perfectly fine with that.
A lot of backers wouldn't back without the KS exclusive incentive, because usually they can find the game for a lower price after a campaign and don't have to suffer the delays and shipping hardships.
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Razoupaf wrote:
Zerbique wrote:
Personnally, I think there shouldn't be Kickstarter Exclusives at all. People should be allowed to ge access to ALL of the contents in one way or another even if they missed a one-month campaign. You might discover a game two years after its KS campaign, grow fond of it, and if so, it's better if you can access any expasnion and promo pack that can have been released.

I think with kickstarter, you have (in principle) lower prices than retail, a way to purchase games which would otherwise be very difficult sometimes to get your hands on (especially if you live in a different country), you participate to an exciting and involving campaign, and all of this is enough rewarding in itself to forget about "exclusive" contents.

So, yes, I think it is not only legitimate, but also a good thing, to be able to obtain the exclusive KS contents through a developper's personal website or in a convention. If exclusive means "non-retail", I am perfectly fine with that.
A lot of backers wouldn't back without the KS exclusive incentive, because usually they can find the game for a lower price after a campaign and don't have to suffer the delays and shipping hardships.
You beat me to the punch.

It's detrimental b/c if everyone "just waits for when it goes retail", or "the cheaper price afterwards", there may not be a game to begin with. Whether for all the right, wrong, or in-between reasons, KS project creators do have the passion to see their game idea go through*


* Acknowledging that failure to raise enough money has lead to campaigns that were improved, and did go on to succeed.
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I'm bloody sick of exclusives in general. If they want to give some freebies out for backers, fine. That should be incentive enough. But all items manufactured for the game should be part of the game as released, or at least made available to everyone, not just backers. At the very least, put the add-ons up on your site so those who buy the retail edition can buy the mini-expansions/add-ons. As far as stretch goals/quality improvements - those should be in every copy of the game anyways imo.

The only thing I can understand are deluxe editions, like wooden components instead of cardboard, etc. - I have no issues with a limited deluxe set. But anything that affects game play, from playmats to extra characters to add-on components, should be made available one way or another for everyone.

Too many people buy these exclusives just to sell later at a profit. And then they whine when they discover a certain "exclusive" does indeed become widely available, causing their profits from the exclusives to drop in value (at least in their mind). And it's frustrating for those who buy a game in retail and then discover later it was a Kickstarter and they only have half the components made for it.

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Razoupaf wrote:
Zerbique wrote:
Personnally, I think there shouldn't be Kickstarter Exclusives at all. People should be allowed to ge access to ALL of the contents in one way or another even if they missed a one-month campaign. You might discover a game two years after its KS campaign, grow fond of it, and if so, it's better if you can access any expasnion and promo pack that can have been released.

I think with kickstarter, you have (in principle) lower prices than retail, a way to purchase games which would otherwise be very difficult sometimes to get your hands on (especially if you live in a different country), you participate to an exciting and involving campaign, and all of this is enough rewarding in itself to forget about "exclusive" contents.

So, yes, I think it is not only legitimate, but also a good thing, to be able to obtain the exclusive KS contents through a developper's personal website or in a convention. If exclusive means "non-retail", I am perfectly fine with that.
A lot of backers wouldn't back without the KS exclusive incentive, because usually they can find the game for a lower price after a campaign and don't have to suffer the delays and shipping hardships.
IMO Kickstarter is being abused anyways - it was never intended to be used the way it is by these board game manufacturers.

Don't get me wrong - I think there's a place for it in the board game community. Small companies looking to get a "Kickstart" to funding their first/second game. But now big companies use it just to gauge interest and rack up exclusive add-on sales and stretch goals. I have supported a few myself - in fact one arrived just today from a smaller company and it's gorgeous. And it can be exciting to be a part of it. But anxiety and frustration go along with that, and overall I wish companies stopped using it to push the add-ons so much. At least stretch goals usually make it into the retail product (usually). So everyone benefits from that. Though I'm not sure in general if those quality improvements usually continue with later reprints or if they drop the stretch goal quality improvements in future prints.



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I'm not a KS user but I feel the business model of creating exclusives is used in a lot of different industries. Things like winery clubs getting first access to the "good" wines, sports car brands only releasing rare versions to people who are previous buyers, event and concert special access to those with special ticket packages, non-reference overclocked pc parts to insiders, etc. Basically if you throw money around more than the average person you extra stuff.
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David SL
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I’m against them, but understand why they exist. If I released my first card game on Kickstarter, for example, it’s unlikely I’d get away without having some kind of incentive for people to back. Unfortunately for a lot of backers that would seem to be exclusive content that others simply won’t get. I don’t mind when it’s a thank you for supporting a game, like a card made especially for the campaign or a different version of a miniature or something similar, but exclusives have become major additions in some campaigns. I’ve seen backers discuss exclusives on Kickstarters like entitled children, almost demanding that they never be released to retail as those retail buyers weren’t there to support the game and aren’t true fans. I’m not exaggerating.

I didn’t back Monster Lands because of the exclusives. Even though I backed it to get the base game, I didn’t opt in to the Everdell expansion because of the, ‘this version won’t see retail release’ marketing (to me that reeks of cashing in on the current popularity and nothing else). I’ve been interested in, and immediately put off by many projects due to the exclusivity of their campaigns.

The bigger companies like CMON are to blame, I think. Their business model is a clever one, but ultimately somewhat detrimental to the hobby where Kickstarters are concerned. Their games are arguably not very impactful on the hobby as a whole, but they definitely play on the FOMO amongst gamers (luckily, I’m not really interested).

That said, I’m still considering backing the Yokohama deluxe edition that’s just been re-kickstarted, so I’m just as much a part of the culture as anyone I guess. Deluxe editions feel less nefarious, though, for some reason.
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Odd Tatu
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I mostly disagree with the idea that Kickstarter exclusives are needed to ensure the success of a campaign. We can think of TONS of counter-examples.

Also, there is some circularity in the argument (not a logical thing or anything like that, I am really not into this sort of stuff): KS exclusives are needed because otherwise the backers will wait for the game to be sold in retail, and so the game will never exist. I mean, THAT should be the incentive to back a Kickstarter campaign: to ensure that the game WILL exist.

Also, and perhaps more crucially, KS exclusive contents is most often brought on the table by "big players" on the KS market. Indeed, with these companies, backers know that the game will get funded and hit retail anyway, so these companies, to make profit and have the money for the game before producing it, offer exclusive contents to lure backers in.

But the smaller players, who just make Kickstarter campaigns because they conditionnally need them to fund their games, quite seldom offer exclusive contents. Also, these games will probably stay quite hidden, and their reputation will not kick off enough for their exclusive contents to be worthy enough to be sold on ebay and so on. If you want to sold a KS edition with exclusive contents on ebay, the game has to be famous anyway.

So, there again: exclusive contents is a good marketing strategy, and a frequently used one, only for the big companies, for the campaigns whose funding goal is not the issue, and therefore, they do not help to reach the goal, they help to ensure that the game is a profitable move from the company.
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Jason
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rilos wrote:
IMO Kickstarter is being abused anyways - it was never intended to be used the way it is by these board game manufacturers.
I don't think the creators of Kickstarter had any kind of altruistic "help the little man get his idea out into the world" behind creating Kickstarter. The idea came from one of the creators wanting a band to play at a local event. And, he thought, "Well, what if other people helped pay for that to happen." The event was successful enough to bring in multiple bands and be held annually. The band had released multiple albums so they were successful. There was no little guy benefiting from this idea.

The way Kickstarter is used today falls within the scope of the original idea. "Want this thing to happen? Send money."
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John McD
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VaultBoy wrote:
rilos wrote:
IMO Kickstarter is being abused anyways - it was never intended to be used the way it is by these board game manufacturers.
I don't think the creators of Kickstarter had any kind of altruistic "help the little man get his idea out into the world" behind creating Kickstarter. The idea came from one of the creators wanting a band to play at a local event. And, he thought, "Well, what if other people helped pay for that to happen." The event was successful enough to bring in multiple bands and be held annually. The band had released multiple albums so they were successful. There was no little guy benefiting from this idea.

The way Kickstarter is used today falls within the scope of the original idea. "Want this thing to happen? Send money."
Surely all the people that wanted to see that band play were the little guy's benefiting from it? Maybe the band benefited more, maybe teh creators of Kickstarter benefited even more. But those people watching a band they wanted to see did benefit.
 
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What annoys me the most is not Kickstarter exclusives with the original campaign, it's these more frequent crossover ones (dice tower, man vs meeple etc) that have additional exclusives (that weren't with original campaign of part of a so called all in package,) that mean for us completionists having to shell out high amounts for what actually is very small content. That's my pet peeve
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Jason
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Zerbique wrote:
Also, and perhaps more crucially, KS exclusive contents is most often brought on the table by "big players" on the KS market. Indeed, with these companies, backers know that the game will get funded and hit retail anyway, so these companies, to make profit and have the money for the game before producing it, offer exclusive contents to lure backers in.

But the smaller players, who just make Kickstarter campaigns because they conditionnally need them to fund their games, quite seldom offer exclusive contents. Also, these games will probably stay quite hidden, and their reputation will not kick off enough for their exclusive contents to be worthy enough to be sold on ebay and so on. If you want to sold a KS edition with exclusive contents on ebay, the game has to be famous anyway.

So, there again: exclusive contents is a good marketing strategy, and a frequently used one, only for the big companies, for the campaigns whose funding goal is not the issue, and therefore, they do not help to reach the goal, they help to ensure that the game is a profitable move from the company.
It's the games with a $30-60 retail copy that benefit from exclusive content. There's a trend for these games to have a KSE deluxe version of the game for $15-25 more. These games seem to be the ones that people are most likely to wait for retail. So, they have to do something that incentivizes backing the game on Kickstarter while still having a marketable product at retails by not having gameplay exclusives.

The bigger games ($100+) also don't need exclusives to be highly successful. The hype and the amount of "value per dollar" tend to pull in the backers. Awaken Realms is on par with CMON when it comes to number of backers and money coming in from campaigns. But, AR tends to have 1 exclusive and CMON has tons.

Smaller games (under $20) tend to be successful, because the risk is lower for backers. These games also tend to be lighter which appeals to broader market.

But, yeah, gameplay exclusives aren't necessary for a successful campaign. However, I do wonder how much of a hit CMON would take if they tried to run a campaign without exclusives. Their fanbase seems to be driven by the exclusives to the point where they'll buy all the expansions in case some don't make it to retail.
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Stefan
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I LOVE KS exclusives. They make me feel special.
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Jason
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BlackSpy wrote:
VaultBoy wrote:
rilos wrote:
IMO Kickstarter is being abused anyways - it was never intended to be used the way it is by these board game manufacturers.
I don't think the creators of Kickstarter had any kind of altruistic "help the little man get his idea out into the world" behind creating Kickstarter. The idea came from one of the creators wanting a band to play at a local event. And, he thought, "Well, what if other people helped pay for that to happen." The event was successful enough to bring in multiple bands and be held annually. The band had released multiple albums so they were successful. There was no little guy benefiting from this idea.

The way Kickstarter is used today falls within the scope of the original idea. "Want this thing to happen? Send money."
Surely all the people that wanted to see that band play were the little guy's benefiting from it? Maybe the band benefited more, maybe teh creators of Kickstarter benefited even more. But those people watching a band they wanted to see did benefit.
Surely all the people that wanted to play that game were the little guys benefiting from it? Maybe the publisher benefited more, maybe the creators of Kickstarter benefited even more. But those people playing the game they wanted to play did benefit.

Again, the concept of Kickstarter never cared whether the campaign creator could afford to fund whatever they're trying to create. It's about getting other people to pay for the creator's idea. (And, then pocketing a chunk of that cash for hosting the crowd-funding of that idea.) There's nothing CMON is doing with Kickstarter that is outside of how Kickstarter was intended to be used.
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