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Subject: Looking for hinges for a custom gaming/dining table design. rss

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Dion Jensen
Denmark
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Hello everyone!

I recently started working on a design for a hexagon gaming table.
I've got most of the features already planned out and just need a few more things figured out to get it to where I consider the design done enough to share here.

(Design will be shared as .STEP and Fusion360 files, along with full feature list)

Here is an earlier render of the tabletop itself:


As you can see I'm using fold-out "wings" so that when I run pen&paper campaigns the players have more room for their papers and snacks so they don't invade the play area.

What isn't shown on the design is that I've added a plate at the end of each "wing" when it's closed, so there isn't a huge hole that might look unsightly to some (including me).

Currently, my plan is to hinge the "wings" using stainless steel hinges like these:

They would me mounted on the slopes of the wings, which are 30mm wide.

However, such hinges would be clearly visible when the "wing" is closed.
If a hidden hinge that isn't wider than 30mm exist I would love to know, as that will have a big influence on my wing design.

So my question to all you fellow geeks that are interested:
Do you know of any hinges that are hidden when closed and open up 180 degrees? Preferably thin in width, as I'd prefer not making the slopes on the wings wider than 30mm, preferably also some that are sourcable within EU.
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Rachael Corns
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I haven't built a table, but have you looked for "concealed hinges"? I'm not sure what's available in your area, but here is an example of what I'm thinking of, but not sure if it would work for your needs:

https://www.grainger.com/product/SOSS-Concealed-Hinge-with-S...
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Darren
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Graloth wrote:
Hello everyone!

I recently started working on a design for a hexagon gaming table.
I've got most of the features already planned out and just need a few more things figured out to get it to where I consider the design done enough to share here.

(Design will be shared as .STEP and Fusion360 files, along with full feature list)

Here is an earlier render of the tabletop itself:


As you can see I'm using fold-out "wings" so that when I run pen&paper campaigns the players have more room for their papers and snacks so they don't invade the play area.

What isn't shown on the design is that I've added a plate at the end of each "wing" when it's closed, so there isn't a huge hole that might look unsightly to some (including me).

Currently, my plan is to hinge the "wings" using stainless steel hinges like these:

They would me mounted on the slopes of the wings, which are 30mm wide.

However, such hinges would be clearly visible when the "wing" is closed.
If a hidden hinge that isn't wider than 30mm exist I would love to know, as that will have a big influence on my wing design.

So my question to all you fellow geeks that are interested:
Do you know of any hinges that are hidden when closed and open up 180 degrees? Preferably thin in width, as I'd prefer not making the slopes on the wings wider than 30mm, preferably also some that are sourcable within EU.
In my experience, when adding a narrow hinge to a fold out shelf (on the shelf edge like you are doing), all of the suitable hinges to do this will expose a small section of themselves when closed.

The ones I used are slightly different than yours since when it is open it is completely flat without a little hinge bump that yours has. These are found at Lee Valley Tools and are called narrow flip-top hinges - see image. I have no idea if they are available in Europe.

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Dion Jensen
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acorns2009 wrote:
I haven't built a table, but have you looked for "concealed hinges"? I'm not sure what's available in your area, but here is an example of what I'm thinking of, but not sure if it would work for your needs:

https://www.grainger.com/product/SOSS-Concealed-Hinge-with-S...
I've looked at those, sadly I double they will hold the wing well enough over time as people might put some weight on it while getting up from their chairs, so when a hinge like the one you linked only grips in such a small area I have my doubts of it's viability long term, plus it's too wide
Thanks for the reply though, will definitely look at what else they have available.

Kaiyoot wrote:
In my experience, when adding a narrow hinge to a fold out shelf (on the shelf edge like you are doing), all of the suitable hinges to do this will expose a small section of themselves when closed.

The ones I used are slightly different than yours since when it is open it is completely flat without a little hinge bump that yours has. These are found at Lee Valley Tools and are called narrow flip-top hinges - see image. I have no idea if they are available in Europe.

Those look awesome, might reconsider a fully hidden hinge if there are ones that look great when closed and open like the one you linked, will see if I can find them (or something similar) within the EU.
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Greg Darcy
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Kaiyoot wrote:
Graloth wrote:
Hello everyone!

I recently started working on a design for a hexagon gaming table.
I've got most of the features already planned out and just need a few more things figured out to get it to where I consider the design done enough to share here.

(Design will be shared as .STEP and Fusion360 files, along with full feature list)

Here is an earlier render of the tabletop itself:


As you can see I'm using fold-out "wings" so that when I run pen&paper campaigns the players have more room for their papers and snacks so they don't invade the play area.

What isn't shown on the design is that I've added a plate at the end of each "wing" when it's closed, so there isn't a huge hole that might look unsightly to some (including me).

Currently, my plan is to hinge the "wings" using stainless steel hinges like these:

They would me mounted on the slopes of the wings, which are 30mm wide.

However, such hinges would be clearly visible when the "wing" is closed.
If a hidden hinge that isn't wider than 30mm exist I would love to know, as that will have a big influence on my wing design.

So my question to all you fellow geeks that are interested:
Do you know of any hinges that are hidden when closed and open up 180 degrees? Preferably thin in width, as I'd prefer not making the slopes on the wings wider than 30mm, preferably also some that are sourcable within EU.
In my experience, when adding a narrow hinge to a fold out shelf (on the shelf edge like you are doing), all of the suitable hinges to do this will expose a small section of themselves when closed.

The ones I used are slightly different than yours since when it is open it is completely flat without a little hinge bump that yours has. These are found at Lee Valley Tools and are called narrow flip-top hinges - see image. I have no idea if they are available in Europe.

Lee Valley will mail order around the world. I have bought from them in the past (australia)
 
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Dion Jensen
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GregDarcy wrote:
Lee Valley will mail order around the world. I have bought from them in the past (australia)
True, but the cost for me would be higher than the cost of the hinges themselves, plus I'd have to pay import fees since it's from a non-EU country. Sadly makes it an unviable option.
 
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Greg Darcy
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Graloth wrote:
GregDarcy wrote:
Lee Valley will mail order around the world. I have bought from them in the past (australia)
True, but the cost for me would be higher than the cost of the hinges themselves, plus I'd have to pay import fees since it's from a non-EU country. Sadly makes it an unviable option.
I know the feeling. It happens here too. We call it the Australia Tax.
Sometimes though for just the right item it is worth the cost. But that's your call.
 
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Dion Jensen
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GregDarcy wrote:
I know the feeling. It happens here too. We call it the Australia Tax.
Sometimes though for just the right item it is worth the cost. But that's your call.
Yeah, you probably have it tougher than me though, I've heard how bad it can get getting stuff shipped to Australia.

The table it currently just a design, so the reason I want to keep parts relatively easy to get, is if someone else find the design (once it's done) and wants to build one themselves.

I have no room for such a table myself, but I enjoy making the plans
 
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Jake Staines
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Graloth wrote:

Quote:
Those look awesome, might reconsider a fully hidden hinge if there are ones that look great when closed and open like the one you linked, will see if I can find them (or something similar) within the EU.
These are commonly called "bar flap" or "counter flap" hinges in the UK. Certainly wider ones are readily available from UK hardware vendors (which is at least in the EU for another month or so!) and I would expect to be able to find similar narrow hinges as well. They're occasionally also called "double-knuckle" hinges, but that name is unfortunately also used for hinges that have two round bits around the same pivot axis rather than two pivot axes...

The other potential option, which would fulfil your requirement of nothing being visible from the outside, is interior 180-degree cabinet door/flap hinges - if you can find some small enough. For this I would look for suppliers for hardware for caravans, motorhomes or boats, all of which require small, unobtrusive and often concealed door hardware. These typically consist of a pair of arms that are attached to the inside of the cabinet door and the inside of the cabinet; as the door opens one arm crosses over the top of the other one and they go from an = shape to an X shape or vice versa, allowing the door to travel in a smooth arc from fully closed to fully open. The better ones have the two arms protruding from a small box that gets fitted into the inside of the cabinet and contains springs for balancing and tensioning the door. You lose a bit of internal space with this approach, but even in the wardrobe I built last year with 8kg-rated hinges on the flap doors they only came out 15mm or so into the cabinet interior, hopefully smaller hinges with lower rating could be a bit narrower as well.
 
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Dion Jensen
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Bichatse wrote:
These are commonly called "bar flap" or "counter flap" hinges in the UK. Certainly wider ones are readily available from UK hardware vendors (which is at least in the EU for another month or so!) and I would expect to be able to find similar narrow hinges as well. They're occasionally also called "double-knuckle" hinges, but that name is unfortunately also used for hinges that have two round bits around the same pivot axis rather than two pivot axes...

The other potential option, which would fulfil your requirement of nothing being visible from the outside, is interior 180-degree cabinet door/flap hinges - if you can find some small enough. For this I would look for suppliers for hardware for caravans, motorhomes or boats, all of which require small, unobtrusive and often concealed door hardware. These typically consist of a pair of arms that are attached to the inside of the cabinet door and the inside of the cabinet; as the door opens one arm crosses over the top of the other one and they go from an = shape to an X shape or vice versa, allowing the door to travel in a smooth arc from fully closed to fully open. The better ones have the two arms protruding from a small box that gets fitted into the inside of the cabinet and contains springs for balancing and tensioning the door. You lose a bit of internal space with this approach, but even in the wardrobe I built last year with 8kg-rated hinges on the flap doors they only came out 15mm or so into the cabinet interior, hopefully smaller hinges with lower rating could be a bit narrower as well.
Thanks for the info, you wouldn't happen to have a link to the type of cabinet door/flap hinges you mention in the second paragraph? I'm having a hard time visualising how it looks, which makes it hard to know if I've found the correct ones
 
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Dion Jensen
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In case anyone is interrested, here are some updated screenshots of the design so far.

Modified the design to get it down from 2m diameter (corner to corner) to 1.6m, making it much more managable.

Also experimenting with idea for electronics compartment at the bottom of the table for easy access, as space might be too limiting in the corners)

Added 6 legs, 3 would probably have been fine, but I'd prefer it to be more stable if people start leaning on it


(Fully closed)


(Fully opened)


(Vault opened)


(Wings opened)


(Cross-section to show cabel channels going to electronics compartment at the bottom)


(Cross-section to show size of wing compartments and cault when closed)
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John Middleton
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Straight knife hinges work pretty well for stuff like this and are very easy to figure out the install geometry:
lee valley knife hinges
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Greg Darcy
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middletonner wrote:
Straight knife hinges work pretty well for stuff like this and are very easy to figure out the install geometry:
lee valley knife hinges
They work best for solid timber. If you screw them into the edges of particleboard/MDF/ply, they don't hold very well. There is a variant tht has a folded lip so they can be screwed into the face of these materials. But I haven't seen them in over 30 years (when I took out my old kitchen cupboards)
 
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Laura Creighton
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Hidden hinges -- I have never used these, so I don't know if they will work. https://www.specialbeslag.se/produkt/lamellgangjarn-60-mm-ma... (The site is only in Swedish but that shouldn't be a problem for the OP in Denmark. For the rest of you -- Gångjärn == Hinges) I think they deliver to Denmark, unsurprising given that Sweden and Denmark share a postoffice, but if they don't, and you are interested in them, just let me know and I can pick them up and stick them in the mail for you. The shop is very local (short bike ride) for me.

They have other options for hidden hinges, too.
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Luke K
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lacreighton wrote:
Hidden hinges -- I have never used these, so I don't know if they will work. https://www.specialbeslag.se/produkt/lamellgangjarn-60-mm-ma... (The site is only in Swedish but that shouldn't be a problem for the OP in Denmark. For the rest of you -- Gångjärn == Hinges) I think they deliver to Denmark, unsurprising given that Sweden and Denmark share a postoffice, but if they don't, and you are interested in them, just let me know and I can pick them up and stick them in the mail for you. The shop is very local (short bike ride) for me.

They have other options for hidden hinges, too.
For those in the US who end up here some day, Rockler is a great source.

I'd also recommend hidden hinges--but perhaps "barrel" hinges. They're smaller, so may work better in this application:
https://www.rockler.com/hidden-barrel-hinges-select-size?sid...
 
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Laura Creighton
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If barrel hinges are good for this application then:

https://www.specialbeslag.se/produkt/lamellgangjarn-10-mm-ma...
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Dion Jensen
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lacreighton wrote:
Hidden hinges -- I have never used these, so I don't know if they will work. https://www.specialbeslag.se/produkt/lamellgangjarn-60-mm-ma... (The site is only in Swedish but that shouldn't be a problem for the OP in Denmark. For the rest of you -- Gångjärn == Hinges) I think they deliver to Denmark, unsurprising given that Sweden and Denmark share a postoffice, but if they don't, and you are interested in them, just let me know and I can pick them up and stick them in the mail for you. The shop is very local (short bike ride) for me.

They have other options for hidden hinges, too.
Thanks! I can get those easily in Denmark, and they are on my list for when I start prototyping, my fear is just that since they don't cover such a large area, they won't handle the strain of weight on the wing's end very well over time, which is why I've been looking for some that would grab further in on the hinge mounting areas.

lujaamko wrote:
For those in the US who end up here some day, Rockler is a great source.

I'd also recommend hidden hinges--but perhaps "barrel" hinges. They're smaller, so may work better in this application:
https://www.rockler.com/hidden-barrel-hinges-select-size?sid...
lacreighton wrote:
If barrel hinges are good for this application then:

https://www.specialbeslag.se/produkt/lamellgangjarn-10-mm-ma...
I've used those in other projects, sadly they do not handle loads very well as they are not meant to be load-carrying hinges like those for table tops.
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