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Subject: How to minimize mistakes during play rss

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Jed I Knight
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How do experienced players minimize errors while playing. I'm new to the game and played less then 10 games. I find myself taking a lot of time deciding what to do or having to go back to the rule book for clarifications but then I forget if I've done certain actions ie. Did I raise reputation after attacking orcs, did I already use a skill that turn. This happens more closer to the later rounds when you're playing several cards and trying to figure out best course of action. The last game I played I couldn't remember if the dummy player had called end of round or if I had one more turn before he called end of round because it literally took me 20 minutes to figure out my actions for attacking a city. It bothers me that I can't remember and it's difficult for me to rule it a win not knowing if I made an error or not. Does anyone start the game over if they feel that they've done an error? Are there tips or tricks to minimize these errors or does it just come with experience?. I won my first game but I know during cleanup I made an error on the white city forgetting to add an attack value for each one of the monsters. I'm unsure if my cards would have still got me the win.

What do people consider minor errors and move on and what should we consider major errors that it warrants starting a game over? Especially for newer players.

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Alison Mandible
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Forgetting a city combat bonus is a classic mistake! You get to keep playing but put an asterisk on it if you win. Everybody's done it.

Most of the other stuff, you can handle by having standard ways you do things. Rotate every-turn skills sideways when you use them, and rotate them back at end of turn. Make resetting them part of your end-of-turn habit, like, "end of turn, I get cards, I get skills, hooray!"

For reputation changes, I move the reputation marker (and the fame marker) while the creature token is in my hand (i.e. while I'm moving it from the board to the enemy discard pile). That way I'm sure I do it exactly once.

Remembering end of round has never been a problem for me, but if it is you could use something like a black crystal on the dummy player's deck to show that it's been called, or something?

You can keep playing through any error you want. If it's early I might start over, but the game already lets you adjust city levels to make it easier or harder, and has a ton of different scenarios. If you play a round of Mage Knight that's easier than it could have been, oh well. Just get it right next time! Not having everything 100% ten games into playing isn't unusual, it's a big game.
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Bill K
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. . . then came the king's son, wounded, sore bestead, and weaponless, and saw the broken sword, hilt-buried in the dry and trodden sand, and ran and snatched it, and with battle shout lifted afresh, he hewed his enemy down . . .
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As you say, there're a lot of little things that're easy to forget, and for your first 10 to 20 games, you'll probably be forgetting some of them. Just correct the mistakes if it's easy to do so, otherwise simply move on if it's a small blunder, or start over if it's a big blunder.

It also helps to have a few pawn markers: I have a Round SoP and a Turn SoP, and I move a pawn marker down them as I take my turns.

I flip the Skill tokens when I use them.

As for Reputation adjustments, you just have to make a mental note to always check this every time you defeat an enemy token, because much of the time it's either a Rampaging Enemy or it was the result of attacking a fortified site.

With my hand cards, I splay them on the table and slide them closer to me when I've used them. I put mana dice and mana crystals on them when I use mana, etc.

Be systematic about playing until the rules become natural to you. Worse case, make a detailed SoP for any mechanic you tend to forget and physically step your pawn through it each time until the process becomes natural.
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James
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I want to find a better way for this, but mana tokens vs mana crystals is rather important. Especially if you are playing solo and trying different variations (ie. your 20m decision session....I've been there).

Best method I've found for crystal vs mana token is to have ones that stand up represent one and ones that lay down represent the other. Not sure if this is best idea, but has worked so far.
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Jed I Knight
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Thanks, I like the idea of using a black mana crystal for end of round for dummy player. The biggest reason I tend to forget if I moved the reputation is because my initial thought process is to attack and then I move reputation but then I see a better move and stop the attack. In which case I sometimes forget to move the reputation back.
 
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Jed I Knight
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sjliver wrote:
I want to find a better way for this, but mana tokens vs mana crystals is rather important. Especially if you are playing solo and trying different variations (ie. your 20m decision session....I've been there).

Best method I've found for crystal vs mana token is to have ones that stand up represent one and ones that lay down represent the other. Not sure if this is best idea, but has worked so far.
I think the idea for crystal (standing up) and mana (on it's side) is a great idea!
 
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Slamin Perfect
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All excellent ideas above and getting into a set pattern really helps. Recently I've been writing up my turns like I was doing a PBF which makes it very easy to track and double-check.

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Robert Leonhard
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I second that. I often write down a detailed record of my play, including my hand contents, etc. This helps keep me on track as to where I am if I take a break from playing, and it keeps my attention riveted on the rules. Also lets me backtrack if I screwed something up.

I also like doing that, because I like to have records of past games and the stories that developed.
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Daniel Takai
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Writing down each step is a great way to learn a game, so that‘s good advice. Inventing small play aids for keeping a visual track of where you are is also an excellent idea.

I have only started playing MK recently, when I had a chance to buy the new Ultimate Edition. The most complex part seems to be combat, especially late game battles with many enemies combining with my own units. I found it hard to keep track of who had already done what in relation to some spells and unit abilities. Is there some play aid that could help here? Something like the battle board in Runebound.
 
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Aaron Montgomery
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grasa_total wrote:

Most of the other stuff, you can handle by having standard ways you do things. Rotate every-turn skills sideways when you use them, and rotate them back at end of turn. Make resetting them part of your end-of-turn habit, like, "end of turn, I get cards, I get skills, hooray!"
Unplayed skills and cards are kept below my row of units. I move cards and skills above my units as I play them. I return the skills when I discard my cards at the end of the turn.

grasa_total wrote:

Remembering end of round has never been a problem for me, but if it is you could use something like a black crystal on the dummy player's deck to show that it's been called, or something?
To save table space, I keep my dummy discards under my dummy deck (but face up instead of face down). I rotate the deck 90 degrees when dummy declares end of round.

Aaron
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Aaron Montgomery
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Rustycage73 wrote:
sjliver wrote:
I want to find a better way for this, but mana tokens vs mana crystals is rather important. Especially if you are playing solo and trying different variations (ie. your 20m decision session....I've been there).

Best method I've found for crystal vs mana token is to have ones that stand up represent one and ones that lay down represent the other. Not sure if this is best idea, but has worked so far.
I think the idea for crystal (standing up) and mana (on it's side) is a great idea!
I've started doing this as well. It comes in really handy when you want to backtrack through an entire turn during a large-scale assault.
 
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Aaron Montgomery
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takai wrote:
Writing down each step is a great way to learn a game, so that‘s good advice. Inventing small play aids for keeping a visual track of where you are is also an excellent idea.

I have only started playing MK recently, when I had a chance to buy the new Ultimate Edition. The most complex part seems to be combat, especially late game battles with many enemies combining with my own units. I found it hard to keep track of who had already done what in relation to some spells and unit abilities. Is there some play aid that could help here? Something like the battle board in Runebound.
In planning battles, I typically group things into clusters above my row of units. So I might have a pair of enemies in a cluster with the cards, skills, tokens, and units I intend to use for block/attack. This often takes a lot of time as I rethink different parts of the battle. This can get tricky if you are grouping the enemies in different ways for the blocking and attack steps, but it is usually manageable.

Once I think I have everything planned out, I attempt to execute the entire turn in one go. Either I get to completion (if I haven't made any planning mistakes) or I realize that I did something wrong and I roll everything back to the start of the battle (I try not to back up "just one step"). That way there is only a short period of time when I'm partially through the battle which decreases the chance that I have forgotten what has and has not been used.
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Ali Cali
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What’s really fun is playing with another experienced player and finding out the rules you each got wrong.

For those that keep a log of the game, do you have a template? I tried once, but was overwhelmed by the amount of information to track. That’s probably why I don’t get involved in play-by-forum.
 
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Joseph Cochran
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One of the longest-running jokes about MK is the person who plans out the entire city battle, gets ready to run it through, and another player asks, "so where's your move into the city?"
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Anatoly
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Rustycage73 wrote:
How do experienced players minimize errors while playing.
For me, there are no secrets or any special techniques. Just playing this game again and again semi-regularly. Don't worry, every single game leaves a mark. Soon enough you will develop a gut feel that something feels "off" or too good to be true.

Of course, if you don't know what is correct then you get into the wrong procedure that you need to unlearn. I found out that I was playing wrong only after watching a playthrough on Youtube. I reccomend you watch at least one.

Rustycage73 wrote:

What do people consider minor errors and move on and what should we consider major errors that it warrants starting a game over? Especially for newer players.
For me, there is no such thing as an error that warrants starting a game all over again! Hell, there is no such thing as a major error to feel bad about.

Lets say you finish a game, then find out later that you were supposed to siege three cities instead of two to win. That is as major as it gets. But if you enjoyed that game, then why taint that memory with shame?! Just play the next one correctly and move on. There is no such thing as Mage Knight Police (Except here on these forums ) and it is just a game to be enjoyed.
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Dave S
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jsciv wrote:
One of the longest-running jokes about MK is the person who plans out the entire city battle, gets ready to run it through, and another player asks, "so where's your move into the city?"
Dang it! That just made me think that I didn't move into the last city on my last win. Time to add another asterisk to that win.
 
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Michael J
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jsciv wrote:
One of the longest-running jokes about MK is the person who plans out the entire city battle, gets ready to run it through, and another player asks, "so where's your move into the city?"
Ugh. I’ve done this. Planned out an epic flurry of cards and mana tokens and crystals and skills and faction tokens and used every card in my hand and then... kablooey. We just waved to the inhabitants instead.
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