Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Aeon's End» Forums » General

Subject: I'm interested in buying into this system but I have a couple of questions rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Q1: I see that it appears to be vastly more popular with 2 players than with 1/3/4. Why is that? (I have a 4P Gloomhaven group that is coming to a conclusion and is looking to perhaps play Aeon's End Legacy - the co-op/campaign/legacy aspect appeals)

Q2: What level of interaction between players is there? Is it really co-op, or are the players just working toward a shared goal while playing solitaire and fending off "alpha players"? I'm really looking for a game that requires the players to directly help each other via game actions (rather than "helping" them by telling them how/what to play). Interactions can be a simple as those in the Legendary Encounters system, but I want more than just co-ordination of actions.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trevor Taylor
United Kingdom
FARINGDON
Oxfordshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mccrispy wrote:
Q1: I see that it appears to be vastly more popular with 2 players than with 1/3/4. Why is that? (I have a 4P Gloomhaven group that is coming to a conclusion and is looking to perhaps play Aeon's End Legacy - the co-op/campaign/legacy aspect appeals)

Q2: What level of interaction between players is there? Is it really co-op, or are the players just working toward a shared goal while playing solitaire and fending off "alpha players"? I'm really looking for a game that requires the players to directly help each other via game actions (rather than "helping" them by telling them how/what to play). Interactions can be a simple as those in the Legendary Encounters system, but I want more than just co-ordination of actions.
Q1. Best at 2 is likely only because with fewer players you'll get more turns and a chance to develop your personal engine more (it balances well at any number of players though). It's still recommended at all player counts.

Q2. There are lots of powers where you can spend things on other players, rather than yourself. It is VERY important to coordinate actions with other players, but that's certainly not all you are ding.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maciej Stępiński
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mccrispy wrote:
Q1: I see that it appears to be vastly more popular with 2 players than with 1/3/4. Why is that? (I have a 4P Gloomhaven group that is coming to a conclusion and is looking to perhaps play Aeon's End Legacy - the co-op/campaign/legacy aspect appeals)
Because it's cooperative, simple enough to learn and understand but robust that it doesn't get bored- all of those make it a perfect "husband is a boardgamer, wife is not (or slightly less)" game. Any game you can play with your spouse will AUTOMATICALLY be rated better than the one you can only play with friends that are like you (which most gamers have very few it any).
Nothing wrong with playing with 3 or 4, maybe the balance it more skewed towards 2p, but it's barely noticeable.

Quote:
Q2: What level of interaction between players is there? Is it really co-op, or are the players just working toward a shared goal while playing solitaire and fending off "alpha players"? I'm really looking for a game that requires the players to directly help each other via game actions (rather than "helping" them by telling them how/what to play). Interactions can be a simple as those in the Legendary Encounters system, but I want more than just co-ordination of actions.
There is just enough direct coopearation to satisfy you, I bet. There's healing, drawing, helping people buy stuff, return to your hand etc. Some character are more skewed toward this than others, but unless you pick the most solo-based characters and spells, you should be fine.

Other than that, this game requires a lot of coordination from players, deciding who takes the hit, who will focus on what aspects of the game and stuff, so even without them there is a lot of table talk.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Karns
United States
Bloomsburg
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
I actually find this game the most enjoyable when I play solo using two breech mages. It is an really excellent game!
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jettosan wrote:
Any game you can play with your spouse will AUTOMATICALLY be rated better than the one you can only play with friends that are like you (which most gamers have very few it any).
I can see the bias toward 2P in the context that you describe. However, I don't accept your assertion that most gamers have very few - if any - friends that are like them. I mainly play games with my friends or at a board game club. I very rarely play games with my spouse (and then never 2P) and only slightly more frequently do I play with the family. My experience would lead me to say "most people play with a group of friends because they rarely if ever play games with their spouse." Projecting one's specific case onto the general case is always a dangerous thing to do
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
karnsmatt17815 wrote:
I actually find this game the most enjoyable when I play solo using two breech mages. It is an really excellent game!
OK, that's interesting, but not so useful as a response to my question! Personally I find that there are very few games that I'm prepared to play solo - especially if I have to simulate the presence of other people at the table.

Have you played 4P? If you have, what makes it so much better solo than as a 4P? (the two obvious answers seem to be "downtime" and "alpha-player dick-head jerk quarterbacks")
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
France
flag msg tools
The Orzhov welcome you. Please leave your belongings with the Obzedat. They are not yours anymore.
badge
Hi, I'm a european crested tit, and a very small punk rocker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Q1: Two players is the easiest mode.
1 player lets you control as many characters as you want between 1 and 4, but if you control 1, then you don't have much life to take hits. With that said, you have 3 turns per turn order deck cycle, which leads to building an extremely efficient deck pretty fast. I think it's a difficult, yet enjoyable mode. The prevalence in player damage in expansions, though, make it very hard. Luckily you don't lose if you're exhausted, but it's still a big blow.
2 players, you have two turns per deck cycle. That's the most you get in multiplayer. If you have more life to tank damage and more time before you hit the hardest tier. It's the configuration in which you can do the most because you have time to build your deck and adjust your strategy and cast spells faster.
3 players I think is one of the most fun player number. But some people don't like it because of the wild card which leads to tabletalk for who's turn it's gonna be. It lets you adapt to the threats quite nicely in my opinion. It's also call solo as you can do what you want.
4 players is the hardest mode. You only get 1 turn per cycle, and don't have much time to build your deck. Casting spells is much longer. Also there will be more minions. The split turn order cards make it easier and more interesting by introducing some table talk.

I recommend the game at all player counts.

Q2: Player interaction is heavily dependant on who you play as and who you play with.
You can adopt a hivemind mindset, or you can ignore it.

An example I like: last time I played with four, we had:
Z'hana: big damage potential, strong healing.
Gex: card destruction, mage healing.
Sparrow: breach opener, strong economy.
Jian: early damage, big damage potential.
I played Gex. I helped cull cards for other players. The Z'hana player focused on opening her breaches, healing Gravehold, and bought tiny spells. Sparrow helped left and right. Jian built her economy and did good damage using my big big spells.
We lost.
If I had played this solo, I would:
Have Z'hana be the center of attention. Have Gex cull her deck by stealing and destroying her cards, have Sparrow open up all of Z'hana's breaches, while Z'hana developped her economy and purchased big big spells, then have Z'hana prep said big spell and double-cast it thanks to her starter card, have Sparrow make her draw card to prep 3 spells, have Jian double-cast Z'hana spells.
That would have been a lot more interaction and could have led to a win.
It's really up to you, but some mages are more support than others.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Razoupaf wrote:
Q2: Player interaction is heavily dependant on who you play as and who you play with.
You can adopt a hivemind mindset, or you can ignore it.
This response is at odds with the responses given by jettosan and negatrev. You sound as though you don't really like co-op games ("hivemind" is such a derogatory and dismissive term in the context of cooperative play) but your comment about player interaction being player-dependent implies that there are no game mechanisms that require cooperation and that one can largely play the game as multiplayer solitaire with a common goal. A game like that is to be avoided at all cost IMO. Is this really the case?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
France
flag msg tools
The Orzhov welcome you. Please leave your belongings with the Obzedat. They are not yours anymore.
badge
Hi, I'm a european crested tit, and a very small punk rocker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mccrispy wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
Q2: Player interaction is heavily dependant on who you play as and who you play with.
You can adopt a hivemind mindset, or you can ignore it.
This response is at odds with the responses given by jettosan and negatrev. You sound as though you don't really like co-op games ("hivemind" is such a derogatory and dismissive term in the context of cooperative play) but your comment about player interaction being player-dependent implies that there are no game mechanisms that require cooperation and that one can largely play the game as multiplayer solitaire with a common goal. A game like that is to be avoided at all cost IMO. Is this really the case?
I do not see hivemind as being negative.

You can totally play the game as multiplayer solitaire if you want, nothing's preventing you, except that you're gonna lose.

If you play, like, Indira, Garu, Jian, you don't have a built-in need to interact with others.

Like I said, entirely up to you.

And for the record: I absolutely love co-operative games and Aeon's End.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger BW
United Kingdom
High Wycombe
Buckinghamshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I find that this is quite a challenging game, and it absolutely requires cooperation and discussion of tactics in order to win.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Firedrake wrote:
I find that this is quite a challenging game, and it absolutely requires cooperation and discussion of tactics in order to win.
Cooperation or coordination? I find that cooperative games that are largely about coordination and sequencing (such as Eldritch Horror) tend to be less interesting and rewarding than games like The Captain Is Dead and Legendary Encounters: An Alien Deck Building Game where not only is coordination/sequencing important, but collaboration supported by mechanisms is important too.

I much prefer:

"I'll do X for you because it allows you to do Y more effectively or to avoid Z happening to you"

to the more common:

"You do step 1, then I'll do step 2 and she'll do step 3 and then it's all done"

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trevor Taylor
United Kingdom
FARINGDON
Oxfordshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mccrispy wrote:
Firedrake wrote:
I find that this is quite a challenging game, and it absolutely requires cooperation and discussion of tactics in order to win.
Cooperation or coordination? I find that cooperative games that are largely about coordination and sequencing (such as Eldritch Horror) tend to be less interesting and rewarding than games like The Captain Is Dead and Legendary Encounters: An Alien Deck Building Game where not only is coordination/sequencing important, but collaboration supported by mechanisms is important too.

I much prefer:

"I'll do X for you because it allows you to do Y more effectively or to avoid Z happening to you"

to the more common:

"You do step 1, then I'll do step 2 and she'll do step 3 and then it's all done"

You get to do the former, depending on characters and cards in play (I think it would take some work to have none of this happen in a game and you would lose).

The latter is also quite common in the game though.
"You take out that creature, as I can get the power before it pops, but can't do enough damage for the creature"
But I think that is the case in almost any non-real-time game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger BW
United Kingdom
High Wycombe
Buckinghamshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd stand by cooperation. "I'll prep spell X, then you use your special ability to cast it early on your turn."
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
France
flag msg tools
The Orzhov welcome you. Please leave your belongings with the Obzedat. They are not yours anymore.
badge
Hi, I'm a european crested tit, and a very small punk rocker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's very much cooperation when your cards and ability say "an ally may discard a card in hand so you gain a charge" or "focus an ally's breach three times" or "any ally draws 4 cards".

If you play Adelheim and Xaxos the 1st, you can charge Xaxos to control the turn order deck, give an ally (not a choice) some charges, then have Adelheim cancel the next attack of power cards thanks to the charges Xaxos gave him.
That's not just coordination, it's cooperation.

A lot of cards get better when you cooperate. Even though they sound like solitary cards.

Case in point: Blaze, which is super strong if you and only you have multiples, can (and should) be bought for you by the other players.

Other cards, like I think Volcanic Glass, let you purchase a second one for another player when you buy one.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Vogel
United States
Hamilton
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've all the player counts -- 1 (both true solo and multi-handed), 2, 3, and 4 player. I recommend this system at all player counts -- truly.

My preferred player count is 3 players. I think that count limits downtime (which can become more noticeable at 4 players, especially if there is any AP at the table). We tend not to play 2 players only because my spouse does not enjoy playing multi-handed, though when we have played, it's been enjoyable.

Depending on the group, you can be truly cooperative, and the game is designed to encourage that. We have lots of tactical discussion and play it fully cooperative.

It's a fantastic game & system. Highly recommended.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
France
flag msg tools
The Orzhov welcome you. Please leave your belongings with the Obzedat. They are not yours anymore.
badge
Hi, I'm a european crested tit, and a very small punk rocker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
vogelap wrote:
We tend not to play 2 players only because my spouse does not enjoy playing multi-handed, though when we have played, it's been enjoyable.
Why not play 2 mages only then?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
negatrev wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
Firedrake wrote:
I find that this is quite a challenging game, and it absolutely requires cooperation and discussion of tactics in order to win.
Cooperation or coordination? I find that cooperative games that are largely about coordination and sequencing (such as Eldritch Horror) tend to be less interesting and rewarding than games like The Captain Is Dead and Legendary Encounters: An Alien Deck Building Game where not only is coordination/sequencing important, but collaboration supported by mechanisms is important too.

I much prefer:

"I'll do X for you because it allows you to do Y more effectively or to avoid Z happening to you"

to the more common:

"You do step 1, then I'll do step 2 and she'll do step 3 and then it's all done"

You get to do the former, depending on characters and cards in play (I think it would take some work to have none of this happen in a game and you would lose).

The latter is also quite common in the game though.
"You take out that creature, as I can get the power before it pops, but can't do enough damage for the creature"
But I think that is the case in almost any non-real-time game.
I agree that coordination is the more common - I regard it as the base-level cooperation mechanism. Good to hear multiple folks saying that there's a lot of collaboration too; I'm encouraged.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
France
flag msg tools
The Orzhov welcome you. Please leave your belongings with the Obzedat. They are not yours anymore.
badge
Hi, I'm a european crested tit, and a very small punk rocker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We haven't approached it but there are also decisions made during the Nemesis turn when effects let you choose who's gonna suffer the life loss or the discard effects and all.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Regarding 2, New Age has significantly more cards and mages that promote player interaction than previous versions of AE (e.g. bonuses if other players have cards, taking a slight hit on my turn to give another player a larger benefit, etc.).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
F E
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Personally, I think the game is best at 4p; more challenging, and more coordination required (since there's less player turns per individual to react).

Level of interactions per player is pretty good; it comes down to coordinating what you're attacking, when to use powers; there's also discussions on what to buy (as each person can go different routes), as well as handling cards that can provide bonuses to teammates. Aeon's End:The New Age (currently being Kickstarted) expands further on this, promoting more emphasis on direct interaction between players turns, via the unique starter cards/market cards.

It's possible to alpha gamer; but I do my best to nip that in the bud as soon as possible - it's ok to discuss, and potentially, recommend something on another players turn; but it's not ok to take their turn for them. If they want to buy cards, or make plays that you disagree with - well, that's not your call to make, it's not your turn. The person whose turn it is has the final say in all decisions.

Lastly, if you have TabletopSimulator, there are mods on there (I'd check out 2nd Edition Scripted) that will allow you to try the game - it's very easy to learn to play, but provides a real challenge - and there's so many different bosses, each of which are mechanically unique.
4 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wpflug13 wrote:
Regarding 2, New Age has significantly more cards and mages that promote player interaction than previous versions of AE (e.g. bonuses if other players have cards, taking a slight hit on my turn to give another player a larger benefit, etc.).
Useful info, but I'm trying to avoid games where the buy-in cost is inclusive of an expansion if I want it to "play right".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will
United States
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mccrispy wrote:
wpflug13 wrote:
Regarding 2, New Age has significantly more cards and mages that promote player interaction than previous versions of AE (e.g. bonuses if other players have cards, taking a slight hit on my turn to give another player a larger benefit, etc.).
Useful info, but I'm trying to avoid games where the buy-in cost is inclusive of an expansion if I want it to "play right".
New Age is a stand alone expansion. You don't have to purchase anything else to play it, but it also integrates with the existing content.
4 
 Thumb up
0.10
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Comboteur "Crazed 'Beastface' Survivor" Fou
France
flag msg tools
The Orzhov welcome you. Please leave your belongings with the Obzedat. They are not yours anymore.
badge
Hi, I'm a european crested tit, and a very small punk rocker!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mccrispy wrote:
wpflug13 wrote:
Regarding 2, New Age has significantly more cards and mages that promote player interaction than previous versions of AE (e.g. bonuses if other players have cards, taking a slight hit on my turn to give another player a larger benefit, etc.).
Useful info, but I'm trying to avoid games where the buy-in cost is inclusive of an expansion if I want it to "play right".
Lucky for you that there are 4 stand-alones to choose from, none of which require you to purchase the previous or following ones.
2 
 Thumb up
0.10
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MC Crispy
United Kingdom
Basingstoke
Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Razoupaf wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
wpflug13 wrote:
Regarding 2, New Age has significantly more cards and mages that promote player interaction than previous versions of AE (e.g. bonuses if other players have cards, taking a slight hit on my turn to give another player a larger benefit, etc.).
Useful info, but I'm trying to avoid games where the buy-in cost is inclusive of an expansion if I want it to "play right".
Lucky for you that there are 4 stand-alones to choose from, none of which require you to purchase the previous or following ones.
wpflug13 wrote:
mccrispy wrote:
wpflug13 wrote:
Regarding 2, New Age has significantly more cards and mages that promote player interaction than previous versions of AE (e.g. bonuses if other players have cards, taking a slight hit on my turn to give another player a larger benefit, etc.).
Useful info, but I'm trying to avoid games where the buy-in cost is inclusive of an expansion if I want it to "play right".
New Age is a stand alone expansion. You don't have to purchase anything else to play it, but it also integrates with the existing content.
That's great info guys, thanks
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls