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Subject: Question About Future Games rss

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Jesse Black
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WOW! The presentation of this looks so amazing! I love it! Regardless of gameplay, if there is one thing Gamelyn does so very well is creating a presentation for their games that is second to none. I will be backing this for sure. However, I, like a lot of people, would love to see some of your games (for me, this concept in specific) and ideas placed in a larger even more epic game rather than a tiny one. There's a ton of potential for something like this to be a full size game.

Any possibility that we'll see this concept in a larger size game set in the HOLAS Universe? I bet ya'll would make a ton of money
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Derek
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......and called “EPIC Epic Game”
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Jerad Clark
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So... like this?

https://www.gamelyngames.com/heroes-of-land-air-sea

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Luiz Mendes
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jeradc wrote:
Aaaah, Regular Sized Epic Kingdoms.
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Jesse Black
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jeradc wrote:
HA! I love HOLAS, but I think this has a different look and vibe then that. I think there is room for both
 
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Sean Riley
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jdbc59 wrote:
jeradc wrote:
HA! I love HOLAS, but I think this has a different look and vibe then that. I think there is room for both
I think the point trying to be made here is that HOLAS is the Large version of Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

And I think we can all agree that since Epic Epic Kingdoms (Or HOLAS) can work, why not a HOLAS type game for Epic Tactics?

I wouldnt hold my breath but I like the idea of it too
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Jesse Black
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az933k wrote:
jdbc59 wrote:
jeradc wrote:
HA! I love HOLAS, but I think this has a different look and vibe then that. I think there is room for both
I think the point trying to be made here is that HOLAS is the Large version of Tiny Epic Kingdoms.

And I think we can all agree that since Epic Epic Kingdoms (Or HOLAS) can work, why not a HOLAS type game for Epic Tactics?

I wouldnt hold my breath but I like the idea of it too
Yes Sean, thanks for helping me to clarify
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Crazy Fella
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I would argue that HOLAS is not just a simple enlargement of Tiny Epic Kingdoms but a fuller realization of the engine used in both games. Just semantics but I like the distinction.


This, Zombies, Quest, several of their games could be the framework for larger , fully realized games and while I love and will support the Tiny Epic Series, all this to say I agree and hope we get more big games!
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Jesse Black
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OmegaDolphin wrote:
I would argue that HOLAS is not just a simple enlargement of Tiny Epic Kingdoms but a fuller realization of the engine used in both games. Just semantics but I like the distinction.


This, Zombies, Quest, several of their games could be the framework for larger , fully realized games and while I love and will support the Tiny Epic Series, all this to say I agree and hope we get more big games!
Yes! This is exactly how I feel
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Gianluca Casu
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jdbc59 wrote:
However, I, like a lot of people, would love to see some of your games (for me, this concept in specific) and ideas placed in a larger even more epic game rather than a tiny one. There's a ton of potential for something like this to be a full size game.

Any possibility that we'll see this concept in a larger size game set in the HOLAS Universe? I bet ya'll would make a ton of money
I heard it before and personally disagree completely. The reason why I am in love with th TE unoverse is the challenge of a complex game in a small format.

It is not that you could not make it bigger, it is just pointless because for me it has the right size as it is now.

I hope mothing will change in this regard.
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Jesse Black
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capricorn_tm wrote:
jdbc59 wrote:
However, I, like a lot of people, would love to see some of your games (for me, this concept in specific) and ideas placed in a larger even more epic game rather than a tiny one. There's a ton of potential for something like this to be a full size game.

Any possibility that we'll see this concept in a larger size game set in the HOLAS Universe? I bet ya'll would make a ton of money
I heard it before and personally disagree completely. The reason why I am in love with th TE unoverse is the challenge of a complex game in a small format.

It is not that you could not make it bigger, it is just pointless because for me it has the right size as it is now.

I hope mothing will change in this regard.
This type of response drives me crazy! There’s so many people on BGG that are so snobby. It’s “I can have mine, but I hate you and absolutely refuse that yours ever sees the light of day”. Instead, maybe it can be I can have mine and you can have yours. Both ideas can exist and that’s completely fine”.

I could be incorrect, but the kickstarter that has raised the most money (either first or second) for them of all their campaigns is the 2nd printing and expansion of HOLAS. I think the first printing was third, but it would be CRAZY for them to not make more games like that considering how much money those campaigns have raised.
 
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Terence Aries
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OmegaDolphin wrote:

This, Zombies, Quest, several of their games could be the framework for larger , fully realized games
I wouldn't say the TEx series aren't fully realized games myself.
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Terence Aries
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jdbc59 wrote:


This type of response drives me crazy! There’s so many people on BGG that are so snobby. It’s “I can have mine, but I hate you and absolutely refuse that yours ever sees the light of day”. Instead, maybe it can be I can have mine and you can have yours. Both ideas can exist and that’s completely fine”.
They never said they hated the idea, just that they were not in favour of it. If it is important for game designers to hear about interest, than it is just as important for them to properly gauge that interest and hear opposite responses.


Quote:

I could be incorrect, but the kickstarter that has raised the most money (either first or second) for them of all their campaigns is the 2nd printing and expansion of HOLAS. I think the first printing was third, but it would be CRAZY for them to not make more games like that considering how much money those campaigns have raised.
But the money raised is no indication of the profit margin. It could well be that the TEx series are more profitable due to higher margins/lower production costs or that there's no meaningful difference between the two.
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Jesse Black
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He spoke pretty strong words against the even considering the idea... You may need to go back and read the comments again.

"It could well be that the TEx series are more profitable due to higher margins/lower production costs or that there's no meaningful difference between the two."

You're hypothesizing with your own comments, so you make your own point irrelevant. Who knows if the TEx series has good profit margin or not just like HOLAS? We seriously don't know. If Gamelyn Games is a good company, and they are, then they will try to retain a similar profit margin or "X" percentage on each project. The only actual indicator we have to go on is total profits raised and not the possibility that one has less profit margin than the other.

Edit: I suck at spelling
Edit: I still suck at spelling.
 
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Ryan Lopez DeVinaspre
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jdbc59 wrote:


You're hypothesizing with your own comments, so you make your own point irrelevant. Who knows if the TEx series has good profit margin or not just like HOLAS? We seriously don't know. If Gamelyn Games is a good company, and they are, then they will try to retain a similar profit margin or "X" percentage on each project. The only actual indicator we have to go on is total profits raised and not the possibility that one has less profit margin than the other.
I think you're also looking at it the wrong way. It's not just about how much money they make, but how many BACKERS they have. Let's look at some numbers. The average TEx game is $20 for the "base" game and $25 for the deluxe, on KS. HOLAS was $79 for the core game and $139 for the deluxe. A core HOLAS game is more than 3 times as much as a deluxe TEx game. That means that they could sell only 40% as many games and make more money. So just because it made the most money doesn't mean it's a "slam dunk" to repeat, because production costs are higher and whatnot.

Now let's look at some backer numbers (these are KS only):
TEK - 8,979 backers ($286,972)
TED - 5,522 ($162,372)
TEG - 12,458 ($411,693)
TEW - 14,579 ($468,629)
TEQ - 17,152 ($589,816)
TEZ - 23,425 ($854,483)
TEM - 14,904 ($545,531)
HOLAS (1st) - 3,222 ($495,035)
HOLAS (2nd) - 5,432 ($656,054)

The contrast is pretty clear. In raw dollars, HOLAS has done well (though not their best), but the total number of backers is FAR lower than the average TEx backer. Clearly they have carved out their niche, and people like it.

This isn't to criticize you for your preferences. I actually agree that a lot of these games would be really neat as "full-sized" versions (*especially* TET, I'm guessing. I know there will be lots of classes included - but I already want more!), but I also agree with others that much of what I like about them is their small size and low price point.

However, you said they'd be "CRAZY" not to make more games like HOLAS (while coming down pretty hard on another user), and I'm not sure that bears out in the numbers. Their fan base is clearly in the TE realm. I'm not saying that they couldn't ALSO develop a great fan base of "full-sized" games, but it's pretty clear which kind of game they'd be foolish to give up, even if they weren't already committed to the Tiny Epic Design Philosophy (TEDP?? ). Again, I'm not trying to criticize you, but you came off as pretty hostile and adamant that you are right (sorry if I misread that), and I think we can all benefit from more temperate tones in our hobby interests. We're all here to have fun, right?
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Robert H.
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jeradc wrote:
Like minded people want a tactics game (Everything Final Fantasy Tactics). Not a Euro.
 
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Crazy Fella
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Trence wrote:
OmegaDolphin wrote:

This, Zombies, Quest, several of their games could be the framework for larger , fully realized games
I wouldn't say the TEx series aren't fully realized games myself.
Very good point. I struggle to find the right way to word what I’m trying to say.

Tiny Epic Kingdoms is a full game, and a good one at that.

In my mind if you take TEK and really flesh it out, you get HOLAS. It’s more. Take a great simple game and expand it, and you’ve got this big box incredible game.

It would be so cool to see big box “more” versions of Quest, Zombies and Tactics (if it takes off like I think it could). Hope that makes more sense.
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Kayla Bivens
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TheCrazyPiper wrote:
*snip*

However, you said they'd be "CRAZY" not to make more games like HOLAS (while coming down pretty hard on another user), and I'm not sure that bears out in the numbers. Their fan base is clearly in the TE realm. I'm not saying that they couldn't ALSO develop a great fan base of "full-sized" games, but it's pretty clear which kind of game they'd be foolish to give up, even if they weren't already committed to the Tiny Epic Design Philosophy (TEDP?? ).

*snip*
I know I’m not who you’re responding to, but I wanted to discuss this bit.

I’m pretty sure they’ve said that they still want to actually make more in the “Heroes of...” line, but I imagine that, being bigger in scale, it’s also a bigger task to fully flesh out, playtest, and balance for fun, especially while they’re still in the process of ensuring the current one (HoLAaS) gets fulfilled properly.

Also, I think it’s hard to necessarily compare amount of backers for a genre (4X) that is a fair bit niche & daunting to some, even if pitched as an entry-level variant that has an expected play time about half as long and that looks and feels like Warcraft 1 & 2 but is otherwise still Gamelyn’s/Scott Almes’ Aughmoore universe.

Also also, Zombies is a clear outlier since it’s an overhyped (IMO) theme (I’m sure the gameplay works great, I just feel zombies are overdone).

Regardless, I’ve become a big fan of Gamelyn & Scott’s work, even when some themes fall flat for me, so I’ll continue supporting their work. Really hype for this one!
 
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Gianluca Casu
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jdbc59 wrote:

This type of response drives me crazy!


Of course. I sense material for a good relaxed sdiscussion here -_-"

Quote:
There’s so many people on BGG that are so snobby.


Why, thank Odin you are so above of that

Quote:
It’s “I can have mine, but I hate you and absolutely refuse that yours ever sees the light of day”. Instead, maybe it can be I can have mine and you can have yours. Both ideas can exist and that’s completely fine”.
Which I completely agree on. What I disagree on is the continuos argument that the TE games are incomplete games because of the size they pack. Once and for all, in games size does NOT matter, please see Harbour and Love Letter just as two examples.

Quote:
I could be incorrect, but the kickstarter that has raised the most money (either first or second) for them of all their campaigns is the 2nd printing and expansion of HOLAS. I think the first printing was third, but it would be CRAZY for them to not make more games like that considering how much money those campaigns have raised.
As someone more thorough than me showed you this is an apple to oranges comparison. Seeen the amount of backers every TE has, if the price was as high as an HOLAS game the final amount would be three times more! It is the low cost level of the game that makes the difference. The high amount of HOLAS is explained with miniatures and Shipping and handling costs.

Just to be clear, You can have all HOLAS type game you want, Please have your day. I just contest Gamelyn has to gamble to get them out forcing that format on TE games that, to me, are perfect as they are thank you very much.
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Gianluca Casu
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jdbc59 wrote:
He spoke pretty strong words against the even considering the idea... You may need to go back and read the comments again.
No, I spoke my opinion and disagreed with your point.

Quote:
I heard it before and personally disagree completely. The reason why I am in love with th TE unoverse is the challenge of a complex game in a small format.

It is not that you could not make it bigger, it is just pointless because for me it has the right size as it is now.

I hope mothing will change in this regard.
You see what I did? I made clear at EVERY phrase that this was solely my point of view.
You disagree, it is normal, but I was not in any way strong, just firm and clear in what I want and what I think things are.
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Jesse Black
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TheCrazyPiper wrote:
jdbc59 wrote:


You're hypothesizing with your own comments, so you make your own point irrelevant. Who knows if the TEx series has good profit margin or not just like HOLAS? We seriously don't know. If Gamelyn Games is a good company, and they are, then they will try to retain a similar profit margin or "X" percentage on each project. The only actual indicator we have to go on is total profits raised and not the possibility that one has less profit margin than the other.
I think you're also looking at it the wrong way. It's not just about how much money they make, but how many BACKERS they have. Let's look at some numbers. The average TEx game is $20 for the "base" game and $25 for the deluxe, on KS. HOLAS was $79 for the core game and $139 for the deluxe. A core HOLAS game is more than 3 times as much as a deluxe TEx game. That means that they could sell only 40% as many games and make more money. So just because it made the most money doesn't mean it's a "slam dunk" to repeat, because production costs are higher and whatnot.

Now let's look at some backer numbers (these are KS only):
TEK - 8,979 backers ($286,972)
TED - 5,522 ($162,372)
TEG - 12,458 ($411,693)
TEW - 14,579 ($468,629)
TEQ - 17,152 ($589,816)
TEZ - 23,425 ($854,483)
TEM - 14,904 ($545,531)
HOLAS (1st) - 3,222 ($495,035)
HOLAS (2nd) - 5,432 ($656,054)

The contrast is pretty clear. In raw dollars, HOLAS has done well (though not their best), but the total number of backers is FAR lower than the average TEx backer. Clearly they have carved out their niche, and people like it.

This isn't to criticize you for your preferences. I actually agree that a lot of these games would be really neat as "full-sized" versions (*especially* TET, I'm guessing. I know there will be lots of classes included - but I already want more!), but I also agree with others that much of what I like about them is their small size and low price point.

However, you said they'd be "CRAZY" not to make more games like HOLAS (while coming down pretty hard on another user), and I'm not sure that bears out in the numbers. Their fan base is clearly in the TE realm. I'm not saying that they couldn't ALSO develop a great fan base of "full-sized" games, but it's pretty clear which kind of game they'd be foolish to give up, even if they weren't already committed to the Tiny Epic Design Philosophy (TEDP?? ). Again, I'm not trying to criticize you, but you came off as pretty hostile and adamant that you are right (sorry if I misread that), and I think we can all benefit from more temperate tones in our hobby interests. We're all here to have fun, right?
I respect this post and think you make some pretty great points! I'm definitely here to have fun, and I apologize if I came off as a jerk. That's definitely never my intent, but it's really hard to tell how someone is coming off through text alone. Either way, thanks for taking the time to break down more information and stats!

P.S. The last thing I want to do is get into an argument online. There's so many better ways for all of us to spend our time
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