Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Sword & Sorcery» Forums » General

Subject: Regarding BGG ranking rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Cadrick Loh
Malaysia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Just curious, why is this game rank quite low on BGG since it's quite a solid RPG/dungeon crawler game.

I'm considering to get this game but I would like to ask is there anything that I should be aware of before buying?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

It only has 2K ratings, which isn't many compared to something like Gloomhaven, which has 23K. In other words, more people need to play it and rate it for its rating to go up.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C M
msg tools
mbmb
birdkingz wrote:
Just curious, why is this game rank quite low on BGG since it's quite a solid RPG/dungeon crawler game.

I'm considering to get this game but I would like to ask is there anything that I should be aware of before buying?

#51 in the thematic category isn't really that low with only a few dungeon crawl type games above it.

As far a why it's as low as it is, it's primarily due to how few people there are who have rated it. If it were to maintain it's current average rating, while having another 10,000 people rating it, it would climb to somewhere around #10 on thematic and be in the top 30 overall.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. Gaetz
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The way Ares Games "watered down" the retail box versus the basic kickstarted pledge may have turned many people off from purchasing retail.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cadrick Loh
Malaysia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
What do u mean by watered down?
Anything missing compared to KS version?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C M
msg tools
mbmb
birdkingz wrote:
What do u mean by watered down?
Anything missing compared to KS version?

Nothing is really missing aside from a handful of promo cards and 1 KS exclusive character. My guess is that by watered down they are referring to it being broken up into expansions rather than everything at once.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cadrick Loh
Malaysia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I see.
I'm planning to get a good RPG/dungeon crawler game.
Is there any other alternatives to Sword & Sorcery?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Makis Xiroyannis
Greece
Athens
flag msg tools
badge
Game On
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is also a learning curve that can be blamed for the low ratings. The game is complex and you need to remember lots of modifiers even from Quest 1. If you tried it without someone who already knows the game, and without enough patience to learn it, even the first quest can prove quite a pain needing multiple references to the rulebook, something that is not everyone's cup of tea as it breaks down the flow of game. If you stop before you learn the game, the rating will not be good.

However past this stage and once you are 95%+ familiar with the rules you will discover it is the same rules used over and over, and the game really shines in tactics and gameplay.

Now whether you will like it, ask yourself this: Do you like simple games or more complex ones? It is not a game for a newcomer in Dungeon Crawling, unless you have someone to introduce you to it (and maybe not even then). It is more for someone who needs something 'closer' to RPGs, with choices during the adventure, complex enemy AI, different possibilities during battle. For me, its number 1 of classic Dungeon Crawlers, but even I (who normally read 150+ pages manuals for wargaming) had trouble in the first session. You get the hang of it though, and it gets exciting after that.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg
Canada
Winnipeg
Manitoba
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
cormor321 wrote:
birdkingz wrote:
What do u mean by watered down?
Anything missing compared to KS version?

Nothing is really missing aside from a handful of promo cards and 1 KS exclusive character. My guess is that by watered down they are referring to it being broken up into expansions rather than everything at once.

The character dashboards are much thinner in the retail version. That's the only thing that's noticeably worse, I think.

Also missing in the retail version is the card holder, but it's not terribly important.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Crimsonsun God
United Kingdom
Canterbury
flag msg tools
birdkingz wrote:
I see.
I'm planning to get a good RPG/dungeon crawler game.
Is there any other alternatives to Sword & Sorcery?

Middara, Folklore the Affliction & Darklight Mormento Mori, along with Warhammer Quest that are recent solid RPG dungeon crawlers with a classic feel. You also have Gloomhaven but while I think its a fantastic game its not a classic dungeon crawl and doesn't feel like one.

Personally Sword and Sorcery is my current fav in the genre it does it better than the other's I've played and I say that as someone who missed the first KS and brought in at retail and have also jumped on a late pledge for the second Kickstarter. I've not tried Middara yet however and that looks equally as solid (better story elements, very deep structure but not quite as slick especially with the AI) but I'm waiting for it right now so I can gain a better opinion on it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert H.
United States
Blythewood
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ratings on BGG are skewed in favor of Euros
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gene Chiu
Canada
Vancouver
B.C.
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
birdkingz wrote:
Just curious, why is this game rank quite low on BGG since it's quite a solid RPG/dungeon crawler game.

BGG is ranked according to the people who have accounts here. The population on BGG tend to favour some types of games over others. They may not necessarily share your taste in games.

Personally, I actually don't look at the ratings when deciding to buy a game. I prefer to read reviews and occasionally read the rulebook if it is available. The community here is pretty good and reviewers and other members may answer some specific questions you have about the game.

Quote:
I'm considering to get this game but I would like to ask is there anything that I should be aware of before buying?

It is fairly rules heavy. If you play D&D, you know how many rules there are in that game. S&S isn't as heavy as a full blown role playing game, but I do find it one of the more rules heavy games that I own. The rule book is around 50 pages (which does include diagrams and pictures). It is not uncommon to get a rule wrong here and there even after a few plays.

I personally really like it as it gives me the feel of a D&D RPG without the need for a DM. You won't get anywhere near as rich an RP experience as with a real DM, but the combat system is really good and the campaign story line is quite interesting.

Quote:
I see.
I'm planning to get a good RPG/dungeon crawler game.
Is there any other alternatives to Sword & Sorcery?

It depends on what you want that S&S doesn't have. Many people compare it with Gloomhaven as it came out around the same time. Gloomhaving has an entirely different game mechanic than S&S. S&S is more like D&D where you can move anywhere and use any abilities you have (given you have enough actions and the ability is not on cool down). Combat is rolling dice like D&D to see how successful your attack is. GH uses a hand management mechanic where you use your hand of cards to do various actions and abilities. There is no dice rolling.

A lighter game that is more similar to S&S is Legends of Andor. Game play is much simpler. There are few special abilities that each character has, but it does give you the same feel as S&S both thematically and rules wise.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
designer
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Aegith wrote:
Ratings on BGG are skewed in favor of Euros

Citation Needed.

The fact is that nobody outside of BGG knows exactly how the BGG rating totals are calculated/weighed. There are rumors that they weigh scores of 10 and 1 differently to try to avoid the misrepresentation caused by fanboys and haters who like to rate games at a 10 resp. 1 before they're even released.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. Gaetz
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
birdkingz wrote:
What do u mean by watered down?
Anything missing compared to KS version?

There are a number of mini’s, the second act, and as others have said KS exclusive character, and thicker player boards. It was really weird for Ares to produce thin boards for retail.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
designer
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Shady Bits wrote:
It was really weird for Ares to produce thin boards for retail.

What was even weirder is that they produced a separate board for each and every character. That was completely unnecessary because character cards entirely cover each board during play. They could/should have published 5 plain, identical boards and the effect would have been the same, while costing less.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephan Beal
Germany
Geltendorf
Bayern
flag msg tools
designer
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Thomas Elder wrote:
I agree with your comment, but I would say S&S is fiddly more than it is complex, which is it's main problem.

i agree entirely about the fiddly, and i wrote a long post about how to help manage some of that, especially for solo play: /thread/1928049. The approach described there has allowed me to manage solo play of 3 characters, which wasn't possible (by my sub-superhuman mind) without such an approach. i would have sold S&S for being unplayable had that not worked out for me. (The sad thing is, it was marketed, during the KS, as being "streamlined and faster-playing" compared to its predecessor (Galaxy Defenders). Ha. ha. ha.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert H.
United States
Blythewood
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sgbeal wrote:
Aegith wrote:
Ratings on BGG are skewed in favor of Euros

Citation Needed.

The fact is that nobody outside of BGG knows exactly how the BGG rating totals are calculated/weighed. There are rumors that they weigh scores of 10 and 1 differently to try to avoid the misrepresentation caused by fanboys and haters who like to rate games at a 10 resp. 1 before they're even released.
Looking at the Top 300 games, ~90% are Euros. I did not mean to imply Euros are inherently weighted differently. Rather, the vast majority of BGG users are fans of the genre.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sakari Laiho
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Get Shadows of Brimstone. Now on Kickstarter. Better. I sold this already because of so slow gameplay and million checks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls