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Subject: Root Game Data rss

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Hello everyone. I would like to present a pet project that I have been working on with the help of all the folks over at the Woodland Warriors discord.

Over the past month or so, we have been collecting and recording data about our Root games in a Google Spreadsheet. The purpose of doing this is to shed some light on the balance, relationships, and strategy of Root's factions. So far, we have over 75 games recorded! I am linking the spreadsheet below so that people here can also contribute data from their own games to help flesh out the project.

Data Entered includes scores, rounds played, map played, and more! Feel free to pop in and check it out.

Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yf1kZLdlWCSBdiROvzjI...




Thank you in advance for your entries! If you have any questions about how to enter your data, feel free to ask in this thread. If you have suggestions for things you would like to see added to the spreadsheet, also leave a comment! Cheers

P.S. Currently being updated to add Crows/Moles

I also posted this under the Variants subforum, but I figured it might belong here too/instead.
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Max Pistilli
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Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard Feynman
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I think you should do something about the vagabond win rate, because it doesn't make much sense to say that being "vagabond" is the strongest choice, but being "vagabond 2" is the weakest; who is vagabond 2?

Also how many opponents are there? If the birds for instance won 23.3% of their games but played mostly at 3 that would be pretty bad because they should win 33.3%. If the Lizards won 19.6% of their games at 5 players, on the other hand, that's pretty much spot on their expected 20% win rate. And it's perfectly reasonable (though maybe not the case?) that cats/birds are played more often in smaller games, and that lizards/otters are played in larger games.
 
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pistilli wrote:
I think you should do something about the vagabond win rate, because it doesn't make much sense to say that being "vagabond" is the strongest choice, but being "vagabond 2" is the weakest; who is vagabond 2?

Also how many opponents are there? If the birds for instance won 23.3% of their games but played mostly at 3 that would be pretty bad because they should win 33.3%. If the Lizards won 19.6% of their games at 5 players, on the other hand, that's pretty much spot on their expected 20% win rate. And it's perfectly reasonable (though maybe not the case?) that cats/birds are played more often in smaller games, and that lizards/otters are played in larger games.


Howdy! Thanks for the reply. Vagabond 2 is the winrate of the second Vagabond in games where 2 Vagabonds are played simultaneously. As you can see, only 2 games out of 80+ have had this scenario.

On the Summary page, the big winrates at the top are just overall winrates disregarding all other variables. If you scroll down, however, you can see there is a section for each faction which shows the winrate in games with different #'s of players (i.e. 3p games, 4p games etc...). I think this is what you were talking about!

Definitely check out the broken down stats down further on the Summary page. The sample sizes are smaller, but the stats are more specific and it sounds like you might be interested in them.

Cheers!
 
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Ruben Wick
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BlurbBlast wrote:
[...]
Thank you in advance for your entries! If you have any questions about how to enter your data, feel free to ask in this thread. If you have suggestions for things you would like to see added to the spreadsheet, also leave a comment! Cheers
[..]


I can't seem to write anything. I don't have permission.
 
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Hannes Sörensson
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So if a Vagabond wins a game with two Vagabonds, do you keep track of which one is the second? And if so, why would you think this is a useful statistic?

EDIT: Also, which rules have been used in these games?
 
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Daye04 wrote:
BlurbBlast wrote:
[...]
Thank you in advance for your entries! If you have any questions about how to enter your data, feel free to ask in this thread. If you have suggestions for things you would like to see added to the spreadsheet, also leave a comment! Cheers
[..]


I can't seem to write anything. I don't have permission.


Check the other thread! I responded there
 
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Hattes wrote:
So if a Vagabond wins a game with two Vagabonds, do you keep track of which one is the second? And if so, why would you think this is a useful statistic?

EDIT: Also, which rules have been used in these games?


All games are from after the Lizard/Vagabond/WA/Cats most recent rule changes!

The Second Vagabond is kind of arbitrarily decided at the start of a game by the players. Order is not important. It’s there so that games that have 2 vagabonds can be recorded, because I was interested to see if vagabonds scored less if there were 2 of them in the same game. It’s probably less useful than the other statistics, but as you can see it’s rare to have games with 2 vagabonds anyways so I haven’t thought too much more about it.

Hope that makes sense!
 
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Max Pistilli
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Science is a way of trying not to fool yourself. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. -Richard Feynman
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Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand. -Kurt Vonnegut
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BlurbBlast wrote:
Hattes wrote:
So if a Vagabond wins a game with two Vagabonds, do you keep track of which one is the second? And if so, why would you think this is a useful statistic?


The Second Vagabond is kind of arbitrarily decided at the start of a game by the players. Order is not important. It’s there so that games that have 2 vagabonds can be recorded, because I was interested to see if vagabonds scored less if there were 2 of them in the same game. It’s probably less useful than the other statistics, but as you can see it’s rare to have games with 2 vagabonds anyways so I haven’t thought too much more about it.


You should list it as 2 games played with double vagabonds then, not as an arbitrary 2nd vagabond, and tell us if one of the vagabonds won in each of those games. You would also change the 1st vagabond to include only the 49 games in which it was the only one. As it is we have no idea whether the vagabond always wins when there are 2 in the game (ie vagabond #1 won both of those games) or if both vagabonds always lose when there are 2.
 
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pistilli wrote:


You should list it as 2 games played with double vagabonds then, not as an arbitrary 2nd vagabond, and tell us if one of the vagabonds won in each of those games. You would also change the 1st vagabond to include only the 49 games in which it was the only one. As it is we have no idea whether the vagabond always wins when there are 2 in the game (ie vagabond #1 won both of those games) or if both vagabonds always lose when there are 2.


Yeah I left that out and put in winrate by Vagabond type instead. I can add it for Vagabond; what you’re talking about is already there for the other factions in the “Winrate Against Faction” section of the Summary page. Thanks for the feedback!
 
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Can you maybe clean up the sheet? There are some completely empty rows. Also, there is an empty sheet called sheet 8. Is that being used for something?
 
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Rootsoking wrote:
Can you maybe clean up the sheet? There are some completely empty rows. Also, there is an empty sheet called sheet 8. Is that being used for something?


Not sure where you're looking, but there really aren't any empty rows. In fact, there's only one on the Summary page and that's being used aesthetic purposes. The Summary page is the only important page if you're just interested in checking out the statistics.

If you're referring to the "Enter Data Here Sheet", some of them are blank to allow the data submission macro to work.

Cheers!

 
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