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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Escape rss

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Jason Walker
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If you can post the whole exchange and who responded, we can reference it in the FAQ.
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Michael Denman
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Mike,

We like to be to make sure we have all angles covered when answering a question for a guest so I just wanted to make sure I had all the info. As for your question, it would depend on how they ascended to become the new Mastermind. If they went through the city and escaped then you would count them. If they ascended to become a new Mastermind another way, such as an ambush effect, then you wouldn’t. In other words if it is an Escape effect the escape happens first and then they ascend so it would count. If it was an Ambush or Fight effect it wouldn’t. As for keeping track I like to use a D20 but a scrap of paper will do if counting the escaped cards proves difficult.

Have a great week.

James Hughes
Customer Care Representative


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Desmond Grey
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Cool. Nice to get an official ruling.

I just throw in blank Legendary cards into the Escape Pile. Very easy to count them among the other escaped Villains.
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Darth Ed
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As we’ve been told multiple times by Upper Deck, only Devin Low gives “official rulings.”
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Michael Denman
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DarthEd wrote:
As we’ve been told multiple times by Upper Deck, only Devin Low gives “official rulings.”


I asked him about this and made him aware that I'd received an answer. I don't know if he'll ever say anything different on the topic but I'd be interested to hear it if he does.
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Desmond Grey
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DarthEd wrote:
As we’ve been told multiple times by Upper Deck, only Devin Low gives “official rulings.”

True. Until then I’ll just stick to what makes logical sense based on the rule book and what the UD rep said: Villains that Escape count as Escaped Villains.
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Desmond Grey
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There is legit hope of getting him to give an official ruling. He’s been answering questions in the rules forum that were asked years ago lol.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/31599830#31599830
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Devin Low
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Hi gang, this is something that we have sometimes been contradictory on in the past and figuring out over time. James Hughes on the Customer Care side was wisely giving his most up-to-date info on the topic, and he is doing a great job - we just hadn't figured it all out yet. This is where we are going:

Some Schemes say things like “Evil Wins: When 8 Villains escape.” or “Evil Wins: When 4 Villains per player have escaped.” These count all the Villain cards currently in the Escape Pile.

• This includes other card types like Bystanders, Heroes, or Master Strikes that were turned into Villains by special abilities and escaped the city as Villains.

• There are a few Villains across Legendary that escape the city then leave the Escape Pile. For example, some Villains say “Escape: This becomes a Scheme Twist that takes effect immediately.” Others say “Escape: This ascends to become a new Mastermind.” Or “Escape: Shuffle this Villain back into the Villain Deck.” Or "Escape: This Fortifies the Bystander Stack..." You don’t have to remember that these Villains escaped when counting the number of “Escaped Villains,” since “Escaped Villains” only counts Villain cards currently in the Escape Pile.

All the best,
Devin Low meeple
Designer, Legendary
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Michael Green
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Thanks for the response!
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Fernando Santos
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Thanks for the response! You are the man!
 
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Jason Walker
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Added to the FAQ.
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John Sulyok
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What about this situation:

1. The Evil Wins condition is 8 Villains in the Escape pile.
2. 7 Villains are in the Escape pile.
3. A Villain escapes, but it "becomes a Master Strike".

Do you lose as soon as it escapes before its Escape effect resolves? Or does the effect resolve before you check the Escape pile count?
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Michael Denman
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TMLTurby wrote:
What about this situation:

1. The Evil Wins condition is 8 Villains in the Escape pile.
2. 7 Villains are in the Escape pile.
3. A Villain escapes, but it "becomes a Master Strike".

Do you lose as soon as it escapes before its Escape effect resolves? Or does the effect resolve before you check the Escape pile count?


The villain never enters the Escape Pile so no, you don't lose.
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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So a more up-to-date template might say something more like, “Evil Wins: When there are 8 or more Villains in the Escape Pile.”
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Michael Green
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Trump wrote:
TMLTurby wrote:
What about this situation:

1. The Evil Wins condition is 8 Villains in the Escape pile.
2. 7 Villains are in the Escape pile.
3. A Villain escapes, but it "becomes a Master Strike".

Do you lose as soon as it escapes before its Escape effect resolves? Or does the effect resolve before you check the Escape pile count?


The villain never enters the Escape Pile so no, you don't lose.


I disagree. Devin said they enter the escape pile and then leave, so in that situation there would be 8 escaped Villains before the Villain leaves to become a Master Strike, ie before you no longer have to remember that it escaped, so you would lose before that effect resolves.

Quote:
There are a few Villains across Legendary that escape the city then leave the Escape Pile.
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Fernando Santos
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dontfeedthegreen wrote:


I disagree. Devin said they enter the escape pile and then leave, so in that situation there would be 8 escaped Villains before the Villain leaves to become a Master Strike, ie before you no longer have to remember that it escaped, so you would lose before that effect resolves.




What Devin said is the opposite, you would only count Villain cards in the escape pile for the loose condition, so, in that case you would not loose the game, the example here of a villain escaping to become a scheme twist aplies to escaping and becoming a master strike...

"There are a few Villains across Legendary that escape the city then leave the Escape Pile. For example, some Villains say “Escape: This becomes a Scheme Twist that takes effect immediately.” Others say “Escape: This ascends to become a new Mastermind.” Or “Escape: Shuffle this Villain back into the Villain Deck.” Or "Escape: This Fortifies the Bystander Stack..." You don’t have to remember that these Villains escaped when counting the number of “Escaped Villains,” since “Escaped Villains” only counts Villain cards currently in the Escape Pile."

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Jason Walker
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Previous timing rulings:

Quote:
Q: Can a card triggered effect happen in the middle of resolving another effect?

A: Cards that use the framework "Whenever A would happen, you may do B instead" are the only effects that can occur in the middle of another card effect. Source: Devin

Q: What happens when two effects should happen at the same time?

A: If two card effects conflict with each other, the most recent card effect that came into play takes priority. For example, you are playing a game versus Mephisto, who states that "Whenever a player gains a wound, put it on top of that player’s deck," and then you play Deadpool: Random Acts of Unkindness, who states "You may gain a Wound to your hand. Then each player passes a card from their hand to the player on their left." Deadpool’s effect came into play most recently, so his ability takes priority and the Wound gained from Deadpool goes directly to your hand. Source: Devin


Applying these here, I would think that you'd apply the escape effect before the static Evil Wins effect from the scheme, because the escape is more recent.
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Michael Green
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I'm not disputing this bit:
Quote:
You don’t have to remember that these Villains escaped when counting the number of “Escaped Villains,” since “Escaped Villains” only counts Villain cards currently in the Escape Pile."


Someone said that the Villain with the escape effect never enters the Escape Pile, and Devin's comment below surely implies otherwise (it can't leave the Escape Pile if it never entered it):
Quote:
There are a few Villains across Legendary that escape the city then leave the Escape Pile.


Thus, according to Devin's comment, in a situation where you are 1 escape away from losing, and such a Villain escapes, there is a brief moment where the Evil Wins condition has been met before the escape effect is resolved. The number of Villains currently in the escape pile goes from 7, briefly to 8 and then back down to 7.

Travelsized's comments about the timing of when you check for the Evil Wins conditions almost convince me that you have to fully resolve the escape effect before the Evil Wins condition can be triggered, but I'm still a bit dubious.

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Jason Walker
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Yeah, it could easily go either way. I did ping him for a clarification on the Facebook thread where he first mentioned this.
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Justin H

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If you all just stop letting Villains escape we wouldn't have to be discussing this!
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Jason Walker
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But Hyperion doesn't give you a choice!

*You get to escape! And you get to escape! And you get to escape!*
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Kevin Salch
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From the FAQ
Quote:

If a villain like Mystique (who becomes a Twist) or Reignfire (who becomes a Master Strike) escapes, does it go to the "Escaped Villains" pile or is it placed solely as that card?
A: It never goes to the Escaped Villains pile. As soon as it escapes, after resolving any other escape effects (KOing a Hero from HQ, discarding a card if it had a Bystander), it becomes the other card in every way, and it goes wherever the Scheme instructs you to place those cards. (The default location is the KO Pile in the absence of such instructions.) Source 1: Brenner / Source 2: Devin



devinlow wrote:
Hi Matt,

Thanks for the question. Reignfire says:
Quote:
"Escape: Reignfire becomes a Master Strike that takes effect immediately."

When Reignfire escapes, he causes the normal effects for a Villain escaping, like KO'ing a Hero from the HQ and potentially causing a discard for escaping with a Bystander. Then Reignfire "becomes a Master Strike that takes effect immediately", so you treat the card just like you would a Master Strike. For most Masterminds, that means putting the Master Strike in the KO pile. For Stryfe, it means stacking the "Master Strike" next to Stryfe.

This means Reignfire and Mystique never hang around in the Escaped Villains pile. That means they don't count towards Evil Winning the Negative Zone Prison Breakout. All the best,

Devin Low meeple
Designer, Legendary


So no the Escaped villain does not trigger the end if the villain becomes something else.

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John Sulyok
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So the order of operations for the Villain phase is:
1. Reveal a Villain card.
2. (Assuming it's a Villain) That card enters the Sewers, pushing the rest down the line.
3. Check if something escapes. If yes:
3.1 KO a card from the HQ.
3.2 If one or more Bystanders were carried away, each player discards one card.
3.3 Resolve any Escape effects.
3.4 Check if Evil Wins condition is met. If not:
3.5 Resolve any Ambush effects from the Villain that entered the city this turn.
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