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Subject: Why I rarely post to BGG forums anymore rss

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So this is a bit of a rant, you have been warned.

I used to love using BGG and RPGG forums. I have a lot of session reports, reviews, and forum contest participations from the past, but I rarely interact with this community anymore.

At first, I took a break from the forums when I answered a "what is your personal opinion on..." post. I posted both the good and bad things about the topic, and got piled on by a bunch of people telling me that I was wrong and telling me the things I didn't care for about this topic was just me "making a mountain out of a mole hill".

This was about a years or so ago, and I decided to take a break from posting for a while. There was no big argument about it or anything (no "how DARE you tell me my opinion is wrong villain!?"). I just decided to step away for a bit.

Lately, I have been dipping my toe into posting again because I miss the community aspect of the hobby (I mainly play with my family). Then, someone was being rude to a new user and I said "that user has made people delete their accounts before". This, by the way, is a statement of fact and there are a whole bunch of posts and forum topics that talk about this that, as far as I know, are still up (aka: this forbidden topic hasn't been moderated in the past).

I, of course, get moderated. My post gets removed and I get told that I was attacking another user (again, for stating something that literally happened. I didn't cuss this person out or anything, just simply stated a literal event that took place).

This is a very frustrating place that seems to ignore some actions and comments and rains fire down on others. I guess that's just the nature of online forums in general, but I guess I just had a naïve idea that this place was different somehow.

Thanks for listening to me get this off of my chest. If you want a discussion topic, then tell us a time when you were frustrated with BGG forums.

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Joe Salamone
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Yeah, it's rough in here sometimes . . . but the vast majority of the time I enjoy these forums. There are definitely some people who don't really want your opinions. They just want you to validate THEIR opinions. Sometimes this turns into internet "slap-fighting." And then someone ends up getting moderated. I don't know the details of your experiences here, but I hope you hang around. The more, the merrier (usually???)

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Jim Cote
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It's the same for me at work. I am viewed as a "troublemaker" because I value reality over politeness, success over politics and bureaucracy. It's an upside-down world.
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Derry Salewski
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Definitely sucks.

Not like there’s another game database.
 
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Carsten Neumann
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Vegtam wrote:
...

Then, someone was being rude to a new user and I said "that user has made people delete their accounts before". This, by the way, is a statement of fact and there are a whole bunch of posts and forum topics that talk about this that, as far as I know, are still up (aka: this forbidden topic hasn't been moderated in the past).

I, of course, get moderated. My post gets removed and I get told that I was attacking another user (again, for stating something that literally happened. I didn't cuss this person out or anything, just simply stated a literal event that took place).

...


Hmm, that su**s

There is one user running around who is quite rude from time to time and also sometimes making statements that are simply not true. But, whenever you get to the point, where you nailed her/him on facts, s/he is out of the discussion. That's really annoying. I put this person on "my personal special list of people" to avoid getting in conflict with this person again.

I had to learn here, too. I once got moderated on a political joke (it involved a man with an orange face), my tone was maybe not always perfect, too. But, whenever it gets a bit hot now, I try to admit where I am/was wrong. And this person just ignores this part and always finds more accusations. Aaah. I will stop here.

Have a nice day

edit: added 2nd paragraph
 
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Thomas Huber-Wehner
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That's one of the reasons I've stopped to support BGG via end-of-year drive...
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Meh, people have been telling me on BGG my opinions are full of shit since 2001...but I'm still here. Who cares what people think?
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Chris Geggus
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MWChapel wrote:
Meh, people have been telling me on BGG my opinions are full of shit since 2001...but I'm still here. Who cares what people think?


Now that made me smile - COZ IT'S SO TRUE!
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CJ
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Mallgur wrote:
Having said that, I think BGG suffers a bit from a bit from a "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (who watches the watchers) problem as there really is little to nothing you can do if you think the mods are wrong or mistaken.


My experience has been the opposite of this. Many years ago I was given a temporary ban by one of the site's main moderators for comments relating to age of consent. I engaged directly with said moderator to point out that the age of consent differs between countries. What, presumably, was deemed offensive and supportive of illegal behaviour by some was legal and common behaviour in the country I resided in. By that stage I was halfway through the ban but my point was acknowledged and the remainder commuted.

I would encourage people to engage with the moderator if they are given a ban or the post deleted to discuss the issue. It is a hard job and I would hope that an individual moderator would be willing to engage with a polite challenge.
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I think there has been less tolerance now for disruptive posts (and those with the potential to spark derailments, flamewars etc.) than previously - or perhaps just better tools for dealing with them.

I didn't see your example, but stating that a user has made other users delete their accounts is inevitably going to be inflammatory, even if it is factually correct, and likely to be followed by a whole series of replies that would get moderated anyway. By nipping it in the bud and removing that post, it prevents the flame war that would follow. The Community Rules prohibit disruptive content, derailing and accusing others of violations.

If you see a post that you think should be moderated but apparently hasn't - flag it and forget it. The mods don't/can't read every post and it might genuinely have escaped their notice. And if they don't think it is worthy of moderation, c'est la vie.

And if a user repeatedly posts things that aggravate you, you can hide that users posts and avoid the temptation to respond in kind.
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Reddish22
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Mallgur wrote:



Having said that, I think BGG suffers a bit from a bit from a "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (who watches the watchers) problem as there really is little to nothing you can do if you think the mods are wrong or mistaken.



I will say that the new moderating policy of disappearing flagged posts and responses to those posts doesn’t help this perception at all. If you stumble late into a heated thread, you’re not even able to see what controversial or rulebreaking statement was said to 1. see how moderation is being performed or 2. avoid making the same mistake if you have a hot take. As someone that values free discourse, it also makes me feel like I have no idea how and for what statements people are being punished. Totally within the site’s prerogative to choose but it will likely affect whether I donate to them this year.
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reddish22 wrote:
I will say that the new moderating policy of disappearing flagged posts and responses to those posts doesn’t help this perception at all. If you stumble late into a heated thread, you’re not even able to see what controversial or rulebreaking statement was said to 1. see how moderation is being performed or 2. avoid making the same mistake if you have a hot take.


I think the idea is that by removing the moderated posts, you don't have anything to have a hot take on.
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Scott Everts
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I've been struggling too. I've been here for a very long time and the change in levels of moderation has really hit an all time high. The main problem I have is with the new policy of deleting comments that don't fit the correct narrative makes it hard to figure out what was going on. I've seen this happen especially in threads about people upset about art or theme. You can't have a discussion anymore because it seems only one side is allowed to talk about it. It's frustrating. One of the reasons I've had trouble deciding about my yearly donations. I don't like seeing free speech trampled all over. But that seems to be a big hot topic everywhere including Twitter, Facebook, etc. Just finally trickled down to us.
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So much truth in your post.

The worst part of any hobby are the fans. And BGG is positively toxic with user bullying and ham-fisted over-moderations. I share your abandoning of posting. There are times when the BGG user cadre is so caustic that I'm embarassed to be a member. I usually just stick to logging plays and looking up games.

As a side note, try being a conservative in this community if you want to see how antagonistic it can be.
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Paulo Renato
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Have to agree with the OP... Sadly BGG is becoming a censorship paradise, I had a post removed the other day (I wasn't notified nor received any warning) just because I pointed out to a user that was being very antagonistic to everyone on that thread... I didn't insult him or said any cuss words, jlwas just a normal post that was discussing the behavior of a user.

My post was removed, other users also got responses removed, the posts of the antagonistic guy weren't, my guess was that he was flagging pretty much all the posts that called him out and the mod just went there and removed them without bothering to read anything...

Very sad indeed!
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Rich Keiser
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How can we discuss boardgames with all this censorship!?

Oh, that's right. We can.

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ScottE wrote:
I've been struggling too. I've been here for a very long time and the change in levels of moderation has really hit an all time high. The main problem I have is with the new policy of deleting comments that don't fit the correct narrative makes it hard to figure out what was going on. I've seen this happen especially in threads about people upset about art or theme. You can't have a discussion anymore because it seems only one side is allowed to talk about it. It's frustrating.


Exactly how I feel and what I was attempting to describe, Scott. Completely agree that it definitely seems like in some discussions the moderation silences only one side of a discussion and that’s the thing I’ve been the most frustrated with.

The policy of just removing comments just makes the other problem even worse IMO. Even though I think the mods are just doing their best, it does look like, sometimes, voices are silenced solely because they disagree with the site-approved position on an issue. The lack of transparency just makes my frustration even worse. At least before I could still read unpopular/controversial opinions for myself and sometimes they inspired some great discussion afterwards. Sigh.
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This post has been removed by a moderator - Antagonizing/personal attacks
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reddish22 wrote:
At least before I could still read unpopular/controversial opinions for myself

Yeah, except they’re not deleting “unpopular/controversial opinions,” they’re deleting racism, sexism, bigotry, personal attacks, and a bunch of off topic bullshit that shouldn’t be there in the first place.

Now if you simply don’t believe site leadership when they tell you their policies, motivations, philosophies, etc, then that’s a trust issue that no amount of moderation transparency is going to fix.

I guess I wonder, if you don’t trust this site to act in good faith, why are you part of this community at all? And is there any particular reason you don’t trust them?
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This post has been removed by a moderator. - Trolling accusation and politics
Paulo Renato
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grant5 wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
At least before I could still read unpopular/controversial opinions for myself

Yeah, except they’re not deleting “unpopular/controversial opinions,” they’re deleting racism, sexism, bigotry, personal attacks, and a bunch of off topic bullshit that shouldn’t be there in the first place.

Now if you simply don’t believe site leadership when they tell you their policies, motivations, philosophies, etc, then that’s a trust issue that no amount of moderation transparency is going to fix.

I guess I wonder, if you don’t trust this site to act in good faith, why are you part of this community at all? And is there any particular reason you don’t trust them?


Sorry but you are just wrong... not saying that that doesn't (it does) but the post I referenced above that was removed (and that Pedro was a witness and also mentioned) had none of the things you mentioned!
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grant5 wrote:
reddish22 wrote:
At least before I could still read unpopular/controversial opinions for myself

Yeah, except they’re not deleting “unpopular/controversial opinions,” they’re deleting racism, sexism, bigotry, personal attacks, and a bunch of off topic bullshit that shouldn’t be there in the first place.


As already alluded to, I don’t believe that’s completely been the case.

grant5 wrote:
Now if you simply don’t believe site leadership when they tell you their policies, motivations, philosophies, etc, then that’s a trust issue that no amount of moderation transparency is going to fix.

I guess I wonder, if you don’t trust this site to act in good faith, why are you part of this community at all? And is there any particular reason you don’t trust them?


This is exactly the exhausting type of comments I get so tired of dealing with and just wonder why I even bother. Usually I don’t, but I want to walk through this.

You come into a thread where people are having a calm and centered discussion about why they feel a decreasing desire to post, support, and participate in this site. Your response is to throw shade, imply labels, and question why I participate in the site? Gee - I wonder why I’m feeling less and less welcome here?

Allow me to answer your question - you wonder why I want to be part of this community? Increasingly, so do I. Just look at the responses right above me in this very thread! That’s kind of the point you stumbled into before you implied that anyone that doesn’t agree wholeheartedly with the new moderation policies must be closeted bigots, racist, and sexists.
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reddish22 wrote:

Allow me to answer your question - you wonder why I want to be part of this community? Increasingly, so do I. That’s kind of the point you stumbled into before you implied that anyone that doesn’t agree wholeheartedly with the new moderation policies must be closeted bigots, racist, and sexists.


I think that may be oversimplifying it...

Pretty much, those comments are no longer welcome. I don't think there is any extrapolation or qualification of the poster, or the poster who quote the poster. from the POV of the Administration.

I know change is difficult for some, and the now may not be the same as back then, and that some may not like the new, now... but, this is how it is going to be.

Now, how fellow BGGers interpret comments ... who fucking cares? You really give two shits if I think you are this, that, or the other thing?

So, if you are discussing games and toys on BGG, no worries. If you want to express all other comments, then just grab a deck chair on the USS RSP.

I really don't see the difficulty in reading the options matrix.

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