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Subject: boycotted otter rss

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If no one buys services from otters, will they just have to lose?

I worked hard to explain how my cards and mercenaries helped, but every player bought nothing until the end, saying, "That's too good for you."
As a result, I couldn't say anything because it's true that buying my services helps me.
Other players get points easily without my services as the game progresses, but I just get poorer and poorer.
I've played otters five times but felt so passive.
Despite this, I enjoyed playing with otters, but I'm getting more and more disgusted with otters....
 
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Miguel Pacheco
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Keep in mind - you always get two otters in your funds no matter what if no one buys from you. So you do keep growing. I often find that you dont usually get more than two warriors per turn regardless.

If no one is buying from you, one of the usual strategies people say you can do (I've never done it) is extortion: simply go to whomever you feel you can push the hardest and say, if you dont buy from me this turn, I'm going to hit you, and hit you hard. YOu can give me two warriors from supply, or potentially lose more than two from the map, your choice.
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Thomas Brendel
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If no one else has bought anything, the player immediately before you can buy a service costing 2 without giving you any more funds than you would have anyway. (Though the fact that they come from another player is a benefit in itself.) Help them see that.

Afterwards, help the other players see that it's too good for that person to be the only one buying things.
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Garrett Snyder
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I think it probably depends on the group dynamic too. I haven't played the otters yet, but I'm pretty sure I would run into the same problem. Most people in my game group don't like to see me win or help me, so I'm pretty sure I would get boycotted as well. This did basically happen to me as the Lizards the first time I played them (with the first edition rules). I will play the Otters someday and see, but I'm sure some groups are more wheeling and dealing in which the Otters are probably very fun.

 
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Mark Watson
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lagan31 wrote:
If no one buys services from otters, will they just have to lose?

Nope, but it does restrict you towards a military victory. On the plus side, Otters are almost as good as Eyrie at creating doomstacks, plus can do so anywhere along the river.
Quote:

As a result, I couldn't say anything because it's true that buying my services helps me.
Other players get points easily without my services as the game progresses, but I just get poorer and poorer.

Don't ask them to buy your services, force them. Most of them need rule to do anything useful in a clearing; park a horde of your warriors in those clearings and force them to either buy you off or grind you down (and for maximal effect, point out to every other player they can employ your associates at a reasonable price and continue beating down on your victim with no risk to themselves).

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ilpalazo wrote:
Keep in mind - you always get two otters in your funds no matter what if no one buys from you. So you do keep growing. I often find that you dont usually get more than two warriors per turn regardless.

If no one is buying from you, one of the usual strategies people say you can do (I've never done it) is extortion: simply go to whomever you feel you can push the hardest and say, if you dont buy from me this turn, I'm going to hit you, and hit you hard. YOu can give me two warriors from supply, or potentially lose more than two from the map, your choice.


Of course I remember the Protectionism rule. But I just felt that there was so little I could do with a few otters. It was also hard to grow into a force worthy of being a blackmailer.
 
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mrvague101 wrote:
I think it probably depends on the group dynamic too. I haven't played the otters yet, but I'm pretty sure I would run into the same problem. Most people in my game group don't like to see me win or help me, so I'm pretty sure I would get boycotted as well. This did basically happen to me as the Lizards the first time I played them (with the first edition rules). I will play the Otters someday and see, but I'm sure some groups are more wheeling and dealing in which the Otters are probably very fun.



Exactly the same as I do. They prefer to just be harmed than to benefit from me.
 
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Archonsod wrote:

Don't ask them to buy your services, force them. Most of them need rule to do anything useful in a clearing; park a horde of your warriors in those clearings and force them to either buy you off or grind you down (and for maximal effect, point out to every other player they can employ your associates at a reasonable price and continue beating down on your victim with no risk to themselves).



With two otters each time, it was hard to force other players. Acts that use funds increase exchanges and soldiers. Then there's a limit to what i can do next turn. I wanted to play hard, but this vicious circle was hard.
 
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Doug Stewart
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lagan31 wrote:

With two otters each time, it was hard to force other players. Acts that use funds increase exchanges and soldiers. Then there's a limit to what i can do next turn. I wanted to play hard, but this vicious circle was hard.


Set up trade posts, then craft craft craft.
 
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Matt R
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Probably the most useful service the Riverfolk can offer are their cards - especially to, well, anyone. Earlier in the game the Otters' cards are useful to other players who haven't built enough infrastructure to start drawing a lot of cards. Mid and End game the Otters' cards are just as useful because by then some factions may want the cards to score (Lizards) and other factions may want cards for other reasons (such as an Eyrie player wanting to try and prevent a late game turmoil that may completely take him out of the game).

Set your prices very low - to just 1 - at the beginning of the game and only ramp up your prices after you've "hooked" the other players into getting used to purchasing your services at a very generous 1 warrior cost. Even if you have to play a single game where you lose as the Riverfolk, if you've "trained" the other players to learn how useful the Riverfolk services are then it may help in later games where you (or others) play the Riverfolk.

Don't forget to always mention that for the low, low price of just 1 warrior, that they can use the river as paths. You could even point out moves to other players like "Wow - if only you could use rivers as paths you could totally move your Eyrie force over to that clearing and easily take it over easily build a roost there. Too bad you can't move along rivers like I can. Oh wait... yes you can use rivers too! For the low, low price of just 1 of your unused warriors I can transport you!"

Although I haven't tried this in a game you could try to rule the central river clearings with the Otters, making it difficult for other players to get in there, and then you could let another faction build in that clearing if only they would purchase your services.

There definitely ARE benefits to the other players to use the Riverfolk services so long as the price is cheap enough (i.e. don't get too greedy with your prices until end game) and if they see how they will get more ahead of the other factions even if they are giving you a few VP's here and there as well.

One more thing - I've seen with the Otters that they can sometimes start racking up the victory points in just a couple of turns if they keep a low profile from the other players and stay lower on the VP scale. Then you can start building tons of trade posts everywhere and converting them into free VPs. So you may want to make sure you are coming in last (and thus appearing as non threatening) for most of the game. That may help with selling your services for early and mid game.

Just a few thoughts... Success with the Riverfolk really depend on how much interaction the other factions have with them (maybe even more so than any other faction in the game). I think they're fun to play.
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Thomas Brendel
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zamoose wrote:
lagan31 wrote:

With two otters each time, it was hard to force other players. Acts that use funds increase exchanges and soldiers. Then there's a limit to what i can do next turn. I wanted to play hard, but this vicious circle was hard.


Set up trade posts, then craft craft craft.


Much harder to build trade posts with only otter-funds, though.
 
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Noonespecial wrote:


Just a few thoughts... Success with the Riverfolk really depend on how much interaction the other factions have with them (maybe even more so than any other faction in the game). I think they're fun to play.


Thank you very much, but my team already has the perception that they are a weak faction to lose alone if left alone, so no one wants to play otters. Good tips, but I think I should try on another team.
 
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Mark Watson
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lagan31 wrote:

With two otters each time, it was hard to force other players. Acts that use funds increase exchanges and soldiers. Then there's a limit to what i can do next turn. I wanted to play hard, but this vicious circle was hard.


Yup, but once you master it you've pretty much mastered the Otters

The key to extorting is to maximise the warriors you have - if Cat is in play for example it's often easier to cut off her ability to transport wood than it is to contest the clearing she intends to build in (just make sure to point it out at the start of her turn if you do it, so she has the chance to pay to get around it).
Don't forget your ability to use the river either. If players aren't familiar with the Otters they'll often focus their forces in the clearings adjacent to their opponents while leaving their hinterland sparsely populated. In those cases one or two warriors swimming around (or recruited behind) their frontline can easily be positioned to do a lot of damage (ideally with someone else paying for it).
 
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Andre Oliveira
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Buy lots of card early - players love bird cards. Ambush cards. Craft cards.

You need to convince people that they need to buy from you to prevent another player from getting what benefits them more like rabbit craft for cats, birds for anyone but vagabond, e. Use price 2 on those cases. Ig aomething is worth to multiple 3 go with 3.
Make a deal where you return the warrior to the player on the next turn.
Move warriors into spaces but leave tokens there to change rule easily with mercenaries service. (Cats and bird love having rule without moving)
Extort WA cats and early vagabond. Into buying (I.e.someone who can't afford to spare actions into attacking you)
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Dan
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Realize that purchasing from the Riverfolk is a little bit a prisoners dilemma. If everyone does it you become too powerful, if only one player does it then that player gets an advantage. If no one does it then its equal for the other players but the Riverfolk suffer.

First I would set the minimum price for everything at 2 or higher. One player buying something for 1 is worse than the two warriors you get.

Then you basically have two options:
-Draw cards to get more lucrative cards to sell (blue cards and ambush cards) and craft for points when you can.
-Extort other players. Hold Marquise wood hostage with your warriors. Blockade Eyrie and Marquise warriors (especially easy with Lizard Cult playing). Rule spots where Marquise and Lizard Cult want to build. Look for ways to force the Eyrie to buy mercenaries or suffer a collapse. Destroy buildings with your warriors.

If extortion doesn't work and the other players are dead set on not purchasing from you then you have to slowly build and craft for points. The nice thing about this is that you typically won't be perceived as a threat and will be left alone. Just realize that you need to extend the game as long as possible in order for you to build up enough so that you have a chance of winning.
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