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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Sweeping slice + Oni club rss

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Andrew Chilton
Canada
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Simple question, do I get the +2 damage from the oni club on my combat hits with sweeping slice?

 
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Jee Fu
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achilt0 wrote:
Simple question, do I get the +2 damage from the oni club on my combat hits with sweeping slice?

No. As per the Official FAQ, Hits only get +dmg from external sources if they a) resulted from a To-Hit roll and b) were "assigned" to their Targets (assigned probably means "by you", as described in the rules for making Attacks*). Sweeping Strike meets neither of these criteria as the Hits are both free (no To-Hit roll required) and applied to Enemies without assignment (the Battle Tactic describes which Enemies get Hit, not you; choosing a direction to apply an effect isn't the same as assigning Hits to a Target).

You WILL get the +1 damage from Sweeping Strike itself because it's not an external source of +dmg (this is also covered as the exception in the FAQ). It comes native on the source of the Hits in question.

And yes, this is very confusing. But it was also the most balanced solution given all factors involved, so I understand why FFP did it this way.

- Jee

EDIT: *The notion of assignment in the FAQ about +dmg might be less of an imperative and more of a event descriptor i.e., its not part of the rule; it's just part of the sentence. Literally read, the To-Hit rolls just have to be "assigned" at all - it doesn't mention who has to do the assigning. Functionally this means only thing that really matters is the roll To-Hit because damage - by virtue of its mere existence - implies assignment. Put another way, the definition of damage is "wounds assigned to something" so if the source of the assignment doesn't matter, then "assignment" as a mechanic inst a meaningful part of the rule. All damage is assigned by something.

If this were true, you would think Jason would have left off the part about assignment tho, and just left it simply as "Damage modifiers may only be applied on Damage from a Hit that resulted from a successful To Hit roll" instead all that talk of assignment.
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Andrew Chilton
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Thanks for the quick and informative reply.

A follow up question, what about a weapon with the void core upgrade? Or the ability on the warriors katana? They both refer to combat hits I.
The other thing that is a bit unique is many of the battle tactics say or use combat hits where other character abilities just use hits.

 
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Jee Fu
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achilt0 wrote:
Thanks for the quick and informative reply.

A follow up question, what about a weapon with the void core upgrade? Or the ability on the warriors katana? They both refer to combat hits I.
The other thing that is a bit unique is many of the battle tactics say or use combat hits where other character abilities just use hits.

Hits have many possible classifications. Most of the time, they are either Ranged Hits, Combat Hits, or just "Hits" (this goes for Enemies too, and covers pretty much all sources of wound-based damage). The Void Core is a static +1 Damage buff that you can install on any Hand Weapon (note that this is a Keyword; it does NOT simply mean "a thing you can equip in at least 1 hand"). If you then equip that Hand Weapon, ALL of your Combat Hits will get +1 Damage - assuming they also adhere to the rules in my 1st post, above. This generally covers all Hits that result from making standard Melee Attacks. Battle Tactics do sometimes result in Enemies taking "Combat Hits", but all this means is that those Hits have the classification "Combat"; there are other rules and effects in the game that pay attention to this aside from buffs. For instance, some Enemies are +1 Defense against Combat Hits (but not against Ranged Hits and normal Hits will).

Put another way, the classification "Combat" on a Hit is not enough to let the Void Core grant that Hit its +damage (despite that being precisely what you would expect if you never read the FAQ). It also has to follow all the other rule(s) for being able to benefit from +damage at all, regardless of other restrictions i.e. it must result from an assigned To-Hit roll. If you can find a Battle Tactic that makes you roll To-Hit and then assign the results as damage, then all your +dmg will apply (relatively to other restrictions of course - the Void Core can still only affect Combat Hits).

The situation gets even more messy when the source of the Hits is a Free Attack since Free Attacks don't benefit from other Gear that isn't itself the source of the Attack.

Originally, all you had to do was check the Hit classification and if it matched than awesome - extra damage for that Hit! Simple and consistent. Unfortunately, it was also the most OP thing ever. So as of the Official FAQ, +dmg effects are functionally limited to Attacks only (since that's where 99.9% of rolling To-Hit happens) - but not always! There is room for exception, which is why we have the nuanced breakdowns enumerated above.

- Jee
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Jake G.
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Am I right in thinking I can attach a void core to two different weapons and get +2 damage to my combat hits? devil
 
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Angelus Seniores
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Every addon on melee weapons are indeed cumulative and unless there is a restriction on the void core you can have as many as you can fit on the weapons
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Andrew Chilton
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If I had a weapon that rolls a d8 for damage would that be used for combat hits coming from a battle tactics?


Sorry to be a bother but another question in the same track. Fists of fury, seems like choice A would not get any damage modifiers but choice B would. Because with choice A you don't assign your hits but in B you could. Correct?
 
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Jee Fu
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achilt0 wrote:
If I had a weapon that rolls a d8 for damage would that be used for combat hits coming from a battle tactics?
Yes, if on the Weapon it says something to the effect of "your Combat Hits use the D8 for damage".

achilt0 wrote:
Sorry to be a bother but another question in the same track. Fists of fury, seems like choice A would not get any damage modifiers but choice B would. Because with choice A you don't assign your hits but in B you could. Correct?
This is actually a great question, because its an edge case. There are very few abilities in the game that force you to roll for Hits, but pre-assign them for you. The entry in the FAQ says this:

"Damage modifiers may only be applied on Damage to a model from a successful To Hit roll assigned to that model."

A literal interpretation doesn't necessarily imply that the player has to do the assigning; it simply needs to be "assigned" at all. Fists of Fury assigns them, so under that interpretation you're good to use dmg modifiers on them.

If, however, you reckon that "assign" refers to the RAW description of an Attack when - after rolling To-Hit - the player then "Assigns" groups of his successful To-Hit rolls to Enemy Models as he sees fit, then the player has to be the arbiter of where Hits are going for it count as a "Assignment".

The only thing I can tell you for sure is that both options will be treated the same way for +dmg applicability, because in either case the Ability is telling you where those To-Hit rolls are going.

I would err on the side of the literal interpretation in these cases*. These To-Hit rolls are absolutely assigned, just not necessarily by the player. This also avoids the issue of "what if there is only 1 Enemy in Range when I roll a Ranged Attack? Doesn't that mean I no longer have a choice and, if so, that I don't get +dmg" <---- that's a black hole of ambiguity. You don't want your game rules brushing up against moral philosophy and concepts free will :-P Better to assume that "assigned" means "Hits go there" (you would still have to roll To-Hit tho, for +dmg to Apply to Hits assigned by outside forces).

- Jee

* This is NOT be interpreted as a case for making +dmg apply to Dynamite/Bombs. The To-Hit roll involved in Attacks made with these Side Bag Tokens is decoupled from the damage, unlike with normal Attacks. We know this because it can still do damage even if you fail the To-Hit roll. Put another way: a To-Hit roll for Dynamite doesn't assign damage; it assigns a location for the dynamite to land. That Dynamite blows up when it lands is completely unrelated to the mechanics of the Attack.
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