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Subject: Whatever happened to our custom engineers? rss

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Bernhard W
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Becq wrote:
Anything else?

The punchboard thickness does not look like the 3mm they said it would be. What I'm worried about is that they only made that statement here on BGG and only ran with it in the KS comments, which is quite the opposite to a 5th player (only 5 factions!) which got denied every single time.

The deluxe 3mm punchboards were a deciding factor for backing, especially as the game box was said to be 14cm deep (shelf space is a big factor for me when buying games).
 
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Becq
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BeloW06 wrote:
Becq wrote:
Anything else?

The punchboard thickness does not look like the 3mm they said it would be. What I'm worried about is that they only made that statement here on BGG and only ran with it in the KS comments, which is quite the opposite to a 5th player (only 5 factions!) which got denied every single time.

The deluxe 3mm punchboards were a deciding factor for backing, especially as the game box was said to be 14cm deep (shelf space is a big factor for me when buying games).

Yeah, I looked for and didn't find anything on the KS page or updates where they specified the punchboards as 3mm. I *did* see them state that the *gameboard* would be 4mm and the total thickness of the 3d board would be 10mm (implying that the two lower layers would be 3mm each). Can you point me to the 3mm tile/component punchboard comments by Cranio?

Also, are you saying that they promised 5p at some point, or just pointing out that when people mentioned 5p, that they consistently denied there would be more than 4p. Because I think the later is *mostly* true, with the slight caveat that in one recent response they mentioned something along like there was a limit of 4p "for now".
 
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elbove wrote:
baboonov wrote:
What is the cardboard thickness of the die-cut components, the map etc.?

I presume that it is 3mm, which might explain the huge box

This info should definitely be written in the KS page!

You are right, we have to write on KS page.

The faction boards and the wheels are double layered 2mm for each layer!
Then it's 3mm for each punchboard.



This BGG comment from Cranio is pretty conclusive. Maybe they said something about 3mm on KS but finding that message would be a herculean task since it would have been 1000s of comments ago.

It's weird the game pieces for USA are pink since the mock up they posted a week ago had the color as maroon.


 
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Jérôme
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It’s a minor thing but I’m disappointed that for the Dutch faction, the Rietveld-Schröder house shaped building was ditched and replaced by a smaller version of the other Dutch building, the De Ploeg factory, but now with one part of the roof cut off. That looks silly.

Well, I can deal with that. Still I think that Cranio should have communicated the changes they applied. And maybe another building could have taken the place of the Rietveld-Schröder house.
 
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Bernhard W
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Becq wrote:

Yeah, I looked for and didn't find anything on the KS page or updates where they specified the punchboards as 3mm. I *did* see them state that the *gameboard* would be 4mm and the total thickness of the 3d board would be 10mm (implying that the two lower layers would be 3mm each). Can you point me to the 3mm tile/component punchboard comments by Cranio?

Here's the comment about the punchboard thickness.
The faction boards and the wheels are double layered 2mm for each layer!
Then it's 3mm for each punchboard.


Becq wrote:
Also, are you saying that they promised 5p at some point, or just pointing out that when people mentioned 5p, that they consistently denied there would be more than 4p. Because I think the later is *mostly* true, with the slight caveat that in one recent response they mentioned something along like there was a limit of 4p "for now".

That was to point out that Cranio always corrected everyone that Barrage is only 4p, but there will be 5 factions. (They are working on another expansion by the looks of it, which might have a 5th player).

So to come back to my point, while me and others mentioned multiple times their above comment on KS, Cranio never jumped in either confirming, nor denying it. Not sure what to make of it now that I see the pictures of clearly thinner components.
 
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Becq
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Jimmydm90 wrote:
This BGG comment from Cranio is pretty conclusive.

Agreed.

Take a look at the second picture in the German (black) section, showing some of the buildings and the edge of the player mat (better zoom-in than some of the others). That player mat looks reasonably hefty to me, and I can definitely see two roughly equally thick layers, which I could be convinced are 2mm each.

Most of the other pictures have an angle steep enough that it makes the boards look thinner and in particular, the video of the production wheel makes it *look* as though the tiles and wheel inset are similarly deep -- though I think the tile is supposed to be 3mm to the inset's 2mm. (But the video isn't clear enough that I feel confident in making that claim.)

So while it's hard to say for sure, I'm not ready to call them liars over the board/component thickness.
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Yeah eyeballing pictures online it's hard to tell just how thick the components are. I wish Cranio would just come out and tell us but in the mean time here are some pictures for reference.



Some examples of tokens of different thicknesses. They're not great. I grabbed them from someone else's post about cardboard thickness.

1mm thickness: Puerto Rico.


1.5mm thickness: Patchwork.


Great Western Trail


2mm thickness: Concordia, Game of Thrones.



3mm: Gallerist (on right)



If I had to guess I'd say the Barrage tiles are somewhere between 1 and 1.5mm. The money tokens look REALLY thin. Maybe even 1mm. Seems extremely unlikely that Barrage is 3mm though when you compare the pictures between it and the Gallerist.







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Bernhard W
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Becq wrote:
Jimmydm90 wrote:
This BGG comment from Cranio is pretty conclusive.

Agreed.

Take a look at the second picture in the German (black) section, showing some of the buildings and the edge of the player mat (better zoom-in than some of the others). That player mat looks reasonably hefty to me, and I can definitely see two roughly equally thick layers, which I could be convinced are 2mm each.

Most of the other pictures have an angle steep enough that it makes the boards look thinner and in particular, the video of the production wheel makes it *look* as though the tiles and wheel inset are similarly deep -- though I think the tile is supposed to be 3mm to the inset's 2mm. (But the video isn't clear enough that I feel confident in making that claim.)

So while it's hard to say for sure, I'm not ready to call them liars over the board/component thickness.

I'm not going that far to call them liars either, but I would like to see a clear representation of the thickness of the tiles and boards as those images seem to show thinner components for those.

The cardboard parts of the 3D map do look like they are 4mm thick.
- The faction boards should have the same thickness - so putting them next to the lowest level of the 3D map (not raised by foamcore) should show the same height.
- 2 normal tiles should be sticking out by 2mm from the lowest level of the 3D map.

The pictures I'm looking at that makes me worry are of the dutch board (recess doesn't look 2mm deep like on the 3D map) and the tile of the architect doesn't look to me like of 3mm thickness but being 2mm.

As you said, it's not clear and things can be deceiving on pictures, which is why I'd like to see an image answering those concerns.
 
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Bernhard W
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Jimmydm90 wrote:
Yeah eyeballing pictures online it's hard to tell just how thick the components are. I wish Cranio would just come out and tell us but in the mean time here are some pictures for reference.

The image from Modena Play that has the final 3D board in it (wrongly assembled according to Cranio) has all the other cardboard pieces close to the 3D map (as the 3D map is the final one, my guess is so is the rest):



To me, the single objective tile on the management board (?) looks to be way thinner then just 1mm off the top carboard of the 3D map.
The tile thickness matches IMO to what we see in the latest update (i.e. the architect tile - the only one shown in this update).
 
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If had to guess, I'd say the 3d map is 4mm with a 2mm recession and the player boards are 2mm/3mm with a 1mm recession.
 
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Jimmydm90 wrote:
I'd say the Barrage tiles are somewhere between 1 and 1.5mm.



Jimmydm90 wrote:
If had to guess, I'd say the 3d map is 4mm with a 2mm recession and the player boards are 2mm/3mm with a 1mm recession.


The results are in and my photo speculation was pretty spot on according to Cranio's most recent update.

Quote:
Common Boards 2.5mm

Company Boards 2.5mm

Punched Components 1.5mm
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Becq
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Yup. Though there is still some question regarding the thickness of the company boards, which were listed as 2.5mm in the update text, and 3mm in the update video. Both are less than the original 4mm, though I'd be happier with 3 than 2.5 for dual-layered boards.

Note that tech tiles *were* apparently 1.5mm, but have been reprinted at 2.5mm -- which is less than 3mm, but probably good enough.

The contract tiles are 1.5mm, which is probably a reasonable choice, since they need to be stacked and thicker tiles could be considered inferior in this case.
 
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Bernhard W
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Becq wrote:
The contract tiles are 1.5mm, which is probably a reasonable choice, since they need to be stacked and thicker tiles could be considered inferior in this case.

You can always make 2 piles.

Anyway, my decision to back (vs wait for retail) had a lot to do with the thick cardboard quality they wanted to stick to. Cranio based their production costs (pledge) and shipping costs on those thicknesses. Now all is thinner, lighter and therefore cheaper for them, while we still paid for a deluxe product. Barrage has huge amounts of cardboards, so it'll be a significant difference for those costs.
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BeloW06 wrote:
You can always make 2 piles.

There's spots on the board for one pile per contract tier. Having two would be messier. I think that the contracts are just about the last thing I care to complain about right now, and when it comes down to it I think it will work out to be a positive change.

Whether 2.5mm is enough for the tech tiles or 2.5mm (or 3mm, depending on the source) is enough for the player boards remains to be seen. I think the former might be ok; I fear the latter might not. I guess we'll see.

Quote:
Anyway, my decision to back (vs wait for retail) had a lot to do with the thick cardboard quality they wanted to stick to.

Why does the cardboard thickness affect whether you'd buy via KS or retail, if they are the same either way?

Quote:
Cranio based their production costs (pledge) and shipping costs on those thicknesses. Now all is thinner, lighter and therefore cheaper for them, while we still paid for a deluxe product. Barrage has huge amounts of cardboards, so it'll be a significant difference for those costs.

I don't disagree; they went back on their plans. But they did reserve the right, and I think the thickness they ended up with for most components is enough. They made the most important stuff -- the tech tiles -- *almost* as thick as we expected, and the others don't matter as much.
 
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Bernhard W
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Becq wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, my decision to back (vs wait for retail) had a lot to do with the thick cardboard quality they wanted to stick to.

Why does the cardboard thickness affect whether you'd buy via KS or retail, if they are the same either way?

The costs to ship a game that weighs a fair bit to AUS can be a lot cheaper via KS bulk shipping. That cost is kind of added to the local AUS MSRP: 2 games with the same US/EU MSRP that weigh differently will differ a fair bit in the local AUS MSRP. Therefore, a light Barrage (1.5mm cardboard for about 6 punchboards, ...) vs a heavy weight one (1.5-2x thickness) will be cheaper at retail, if not because of lower production costs, then by the added shipping into the country.

That might not make any sense to anyone else, but it was a factor for me and I trusted Cranio's response when I pledged.
 
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Becq
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Huh. Ok, yeah, that makes sense. Carry on!
 
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